Summations Only

To "sabbath" means to rest. If we meditate on Jesus(or as ringo would insist, the message) we are essentially sabbathing. There is no one day that is required. That is why scripture recommends we pray without ceasing. It is a continual meditative (and active) process. ringo would likely scold me were I not to mention the active part. To be Christlike means to be actively DOING as Christ would do.

So in essence, you share my belief that there is basically only One church. Notice Jesus said if you love *me*. Not if you love God. We(you and I) believe that Jesus is God, in that Jesus is Gods fleshly character...so in essence we are quibbling over semantics. ringo accuses me of throwing out the tough things that Jesus teaches, but im just being honest as to who I am and the fact that I have a fleshly side as well as a spiritual one.

Unlike you, I dont follow the teachings of man. Though I have had several Pastors, a couple of them even good ones, I get my revelations straight from the book. Though my critics accuse me of being just another apologist, I could care less. There is nothing that you can teach me from your church that I dont already know anjd/or disagree with. I already know the concept that all of the law and prophets(prophecy) hang on the two commandments that Jesus said. I also know the concept that this in no way negates the other 8. Don't insult my intelligence.

Actually, for an ex-believer, ringo understands the Bible quite well. And everytime I try and google information pertaining to something you are preaching, I see your church in the search results. Which means that we understand the Bible quite well. Its your church and its teachings (peculiar to them in regards of emphasis) that we ostensibly have trouble with. They have turned you into a parrot.Added:
I looked up just one of the scriptures that you quoted at ringo.
The search engine took me to a website known as Vision.org. Is the Soul Immortal?I poked around a bit to see where vision.org got their vision.About VisionLo and behold!

quote:

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Vision.org is sponsored and funded by the Church of God, an International Community. The Church does not intend this site to convert readers to its beliefs, nor do we use it to solicit membership. We offer it as a viewpoint in the broader discussion of ideas. The Church has no social or political agenda and does not attempt to influence the political process in any country where it operates. Our message is simple: it is one of hope in a better world to come.

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The Church traces its origins via Sabbatarian roots in 17th-century Europe to the first-century New Testament Church at Jerusalem. Accordingly, it endeavors to uphold the original practice and teachings of Jesus Christ and His followers. It has members around the world and operational centers in Australia, Canada, Germany, the Philippines, South Africa, Switzerland, the United Kingdom and the United States.

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As part of its mission, the Church places great emphasis on taking care of its members, offering them spiritual guidance and support. Its goal is to provide a community where all those who commit to the ideals and values of the organization can grow in grace and knowledge and develop godly character.

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Fair enough...but I am an inquisitive sort of a guy. So I looked further. The Church of God,InternationalWhere they say:

quote:

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It is our desire to be a beacon of hope in a world full of chaos. As followers of Jesus Christ, our mission is to evangelize every community with the absolute truth of God’s Word.

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The problem, candle, is that you are trying to evangelize EvC with the truths that your church teaches you. They never let me off the hook, and im sure you reacted in horror when I decided to take a free online philosophy course.Most Christians that I know wouldn't do it.Granted I wont be throwing my beliefs away anytime soon.My point, however, is that if you feel it is your mission to teach here at this forum, you need to throw away what you have been taught and stick to what *you* believe based on your daily interaction with Jesus Christ. Thats my 2 cents, anyway.

You have yet to have your Job moment with the Creator. Where you will get to whine to Him about all of the universal pain and suffering that He could have prevented and how He could have just made earth like Heaven if He was so all-powerful. I doubt you would say anything, however. You don't believe He ever existed. Perhaps you would rather "take your chances" with a universe of chance.Maybe you and I can go fishing and promise never to bring religion up as a topic of conversation. Except we would still have politics! The way I see it, God (as I understand Him) either has a good reason for the way things are in this worldor
I'll never know until I die...if even then.So perhaps fishing is the best option. And I think I'll shut up about politics too, unless you bring it up.

Off the cuff....I AM that I AM.I AM (a gleam) that I AM (a gleam.) Of course, the trajectory of our argument centers around what sense is. In that definition of sense as a noun, I would highlight these particular impressions:

conscious awareness or rationality

a meaning conveyed or intended : import, signification

a definite but often vague awareness or impression

a discerning awareness and appreciation

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Of course, anything can be argued to make sense. As a believer, my argument is likely predictable.

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The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).

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When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy

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Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022

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We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

Both ringo and I understand the Bible better than you do. You are just a parrot for your church. [/rant] Everything you say and preach is what they taught you to say and preach.

It is if you happen to be God. You would likely argue with Him, though...telling Him He was slacking on the job!

True, though for at least *some* believers, the words have less precise meaning than does the messenger Himself. You will accuse us of making up the messenger as we go, but the fact is, we believe we have a relationship with the messenger *in* the book above and beyond the book itself. I dunno...call me crazy. If we can provide comedy to the peanut gallery while you bust my balls about morality, I'm all in.
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Thats assuming that you can even define His job. He may have a more intricate job "description" than your mind can fathom. Perhaps He wants *you* to give it all up and help those kids yourself.

Even with Gods Holy Spirit we can be selfish assholes at times. Or egotistical ones who claim to be Saints! It is unwise to continually grieve the Spirit.Critics will ask how would we ever know whether we had the Spirit or not. Which is a valid question.

I think you are right. So do the lot of you. Which I suppose is why I am "stupid" around here. I see the doughnut, while you all see the hole. I'm not sure why you get so worked up over what candle says. Though he is clearly attempting to preach to us, I don't make the connection as to how he is serving satan, based on what he says. At worst, he has bad sources for his information.

As a fellow believer, I will totally disagree with you. First of all, we do not find God. God finds us. Our mind *never* rose to find Him. Second, atheists in general have more developed and educated minds than do believers. AZ Paul3 may be an antitheist, but he is no more to be pitied than the corrupt Popes of the past in "Gods chosen church". They knew full well what they were doing and so does AZ. He fights your attitude as much as he fights your Theology.

I saw that post first thing this morning as I was waking up and checking my emails. It gave me pause to think. I had to ask and answer some questions:

Do all believers believe in magic?

What is the definition of magic, in context?

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To begin with, I believe that my salvation moment...years ago (1993) when I first got saved was "magical". My entire demeanor changed. On a dime! (Scripture defines it as being transformed by the renewing of your mind) That one change was so memorable that I mark it as a watershed moment in my life.

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BUT...Since then, I have shown signs of not only a relapse but a reversion to my old nature...and even worse! I get caught up in arguments regarding fairness and entitlement and in racism and hatred and wars and economic doomsday's that is unbefitting a man who claims to have been transformed at one time (or ongoing) in his life.

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ringo tried to get my attention by accusing me of doing nothing that Jesus(as character in a book) asked or demanded of me. I rejected his claim as invalid because he exaggerated (in my mind) by saying I did NOTHING that Jesus told me to do, and, secondly that he himself was not a believer. He has responded to that argument over and over so lets not belabor the point.
The point is I DO believe in magic. That God exists.(Which itself would be magic since we have no objective evidence)That God seeks to commune with humanity. That God can and does transform us through the renewing of our mind. That God is not limited by definition from the plethora of human inspired and specific gods of our own imaginations.

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So what is the definition of magic? Magic is when an old grump like Ebenezer Scrooge has his entire demeanor change. Magic is when a poor person becomes rich (in spirit) and stops begging or stealing. Magic is when a sick person becomes well. Magic is when the people cease fighting each other ideologically and begin to get along.

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candle at both ends writes:

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Theodoric, you do believe in magic.

he just said he didn't.

You believe in the magic of chemicals creating life.

Liife itself is rare, but would you describe it as magic? Perhaps I might, though Theo would refer to the scientific method and say there is no magic involved.

You believe in fairy tales.

In order to do that we would have to believe in fairies, don't you think?

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jar writes:

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We see that it is chemicals and only chemicals that create life even today.

So are you arguing that only chemicals are involved? Why can't we resurrect a dead corpse through chemicals, then?

jar writes:

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Learn that words have meaning.

Remember snarl words and purr words?

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I doubt that candle2 would ever read Language In Thought & Action. Heck, I still need to finish it!

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Speaking of fairy tales...
What do you make of this scripture: Quit looking for signs from Ron Wyatt.