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Member (Idle past 5938 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Meaning Of The Trinity | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
To "sabbath" means to rest. If we meditate on Jesus(or as ringo would insist, the message) we are essentially sabbathing. There is no one day that is required. That is why scripture recommends we pray without ceasing. It is a continual meditative (and active) process. ringo would likely scold me were I not to mention the active part. To be Christlike means to be actively DOING as Christ would do.
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
candle writes: So in essence, you share my belief that there is basically only One church.
Phat, any church that truly loves God, and thatteaches God's truth, and that keep His Commandments; all ten of them, is God's church. John 1415 Jesus said "If you love me keep my Notice Jesus said if you love *me*. Not if you love God. We(you and I) believe that Jesus is God, in that Jesus is Gods fleshly character...so in essence we are quibbling over semantics. ringo accuses me of throwing out the tough things that Jesus teaches, but im just being honest as to who I am and the fact that I have a fleshly side as well as a spiritual one.Commandments. The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
But, don't try to pull my leg with this crap that your pastor Unlike you, I dont follow the teachings of man. Though I have had several Pastors, a couple of them even good ones, I get my revelations straight from the book. Though my critics accuse me of being just another apologist, I could care less. There is nothing that you can teach me from your church that I dont already know anjd/or disagree with. I already know the concept that all of the law and prophets(prophecy) hang on the two commandments that Jesus said. I also know the concept that this in no way negates the other 8. Don't insult my intelligence.is feeding you. The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
candle2 writes: Actually, for an ex-believer, ringo understands the Bible quite well. And everytime I try and google information pertaining to something you are preaching, I see your church in the search results. Which means that we understand the Bible quite well. Its your church and its teachings (peculiar to them in regards of emphasis) that we ostensibly have trouble with. They have turned you into a parrot. You have no idea at all whatthese verses mean. It doesn't really matter, though. I simply wanted to show how little you understand about the Bible. Added:I looked up just one of the scriptures that you quoted at ringo. The search engine took me to a website known as Vision.org. Is the Soul Immortal? I poked around a bit to see where vision.org got their vision.About Vision Lo and behold! quote:Fair enough...but I am an inquisitive sort of a guy. So I looked further. The Church of God,International Where they say: quote: The problem, candle, is that you are trying to evangelize EvC with the truths that your church teaches you. They never let me off the hook, and im sure you reacted in horror when I decided to take a free online philosophy course. Most Christians that I know wouldn't do it. Granted I wont be throwing my beliefs away anytime soon. My point, however, is that if you feel it is your mission to teach here at this forum, you need to throw away what you have been taught and stick to what *you* believe based on your daily interaction with Jesus Christ. Thats my 2 cents, anyway. Edited by Phat, . The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
You have yet to have your Job moment with the Creator. Where you will get to whine to Him about all of the universal pain and suffering that He could have prevented and how He could have just made earth like Heaven if He was so all-powerful. I doubt you would say anything, however. You don't believe He ever existed. Perhaps you would rather "take your chances" with a universe of chance.
Maybe you and I can go fishing and promise never to bring religion up as a topic of conversation. Except we would still have politics! The way I see it, God (as I understand Him) either has a good reason for the way things are in this world orI'll never know until I die...if even then. So perhaps fishing is the best option. And I think I'll shut up about politics too, unless you bring it up.The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Taq writes: Off the cuff....I AM that I AM. Jesus is God, so that would mean God started to exist when God was a gleam in his own eye. That doesn't make much sense.
I AM (a gleam) that I AM (a gleam.) Of course, the trajectory of our argument centers around what sense is.
Websters writes: Synonyms of sense1 : a meaning conveyed or intended : import, signification especially : one of a set of meanings a word or phrase may bear especially as segregated in a dictionary entry 2 a : the faculty of perceiving by means of sense organs b : a specialized function or mechanism (such as sight, hearing, smell, taste, or touch) by which an animal receives and responds to external or internal stimuli c : the sensory mechanisms constituting a unit distinct from other functions (such as movement or thought) 3 : conscious awareness or rationality —usually used in plural finally came to his senses 4 a : a particular sensation or kind or quality of sensation a good sense of balance b : a definite but often vague awareness or impression felt a sense of insecurity a sense of danger c : a motivating awareness a sense of shame d : a discerning awareness and appreciation her sense of humor 5 : consensus the sense of the meeting 6 a : capacity for effective application of the powers of the mind as a basis for action or response : intelligence b : sound mental capacity and understanding typically marked by shrewdness and practicality also : agreement with or satisfaction of such power this decision makes sense 7 : one of two opposite directions especially of motion (as of a point, line, or surface) In that definition of sense as a noun, I would highlight these particular impressions:
Of course, anything can be argued to make sense. As a believer, my argument is likely predictable. The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
candle2 writes: Both ringo and I understand the Bible better than you do. You are just a parrot for your church. [/rant] Everything you say and preach is what they taught you to say and preach. Phat stated that you understood the Bible, and comparedto him, he could be right. The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: It is if you happen to be God. You would likely argue with Him, though...telling Him He was slacking on the job! Mere existence is not a very impressive feat.The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo, addressing Candle writes: True, though for at least *some* believers, the words have less precise meaning than does the messenger Himself. You will accuse us of making up the messenger as we go, but the fact is, we believe we have a relationship with the messenger *in* the book above and beyond the book itself. I dunno...call me crazy.
I claim to be able to read what the Bible says. A lot of people, like Phat and you, try to tell me it doesn't say what it says. For many believers, "understanding" the Bible means juggling it.So... are you going to actually discuss the Bible? Or are you just going to be my straight-man? If we can provide comedy to the peanut gallery while you bust my balls about morality, I'm all in. The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Thats assuming that you can even define His job. He may have a more intricate job "description" than your mind can fathom. Perhaps He wants *you* to give it all up and help those kids yourself.
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
candle2 writes: Even with Gods Holy Spirit we can be selfish assholes at times. Or egotistical ones who claim to be Saints! It is unwise to continually grieve the Spirit. WithoutGod's Holy Spirit it is impossible to develop Godly character. Critics will ask how would we ever know whether we had the Spirit or not. Which is a valid question.The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Taq writes: I think you are right.
When did Hitchens ever say that he hated God? He hated religion, not God. AZAnti writes: So do the lot of you. Which I suppose is why I am "stupid" around here. I see the doughnut, while you all see the hole.
Hitch hated the evil of religious thought. Tanypteryx, addressing candle2 writes: I'm not sure why you get so worked up over what candle says. Though he is clearly attempting to preach to us, I don't make the connection as to how he is serving satan, based on what he says. At worst, he has bad sources for his information. You are one of those so-called christians who are willing to commit any evil in the service of Satan.The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
As a fellow believer, I will totally disagree with you. First of all, we do not find God. God finds us. Our mind *never* rose to find Him. Second, atheists in general have more developed and educated minds than do believers. AZ Paul3 may be an antitheist, but he is no more to be pitied than the corrupt Popes of the past in "Gods chosen church". They knew full well what they were doing and so does AZ. He fights your attitude as much as he fights your Theology.
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022 We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Theodoric, responding to Dredge writes: I saw that post first thing this morning as I was waking up and checking my emails. It gave me pause to think. I had to ask and answer some questions:
You believe in magic and we.do not. To begin with, I believe that my salvation moment...years ago (1993) when I first got saved was "magical". My entire demeanor changed. On a dime! (Scripture defines it as being transformed by the renewing of your mind) That one change was so memorable that I mark it as a watershed moment in my life. BUT...Since then, I have shown signs of not only a relapse but a reversion to my old nature...and even worse! I get caught up in arguments regarding fairness and entitlement and in racism and hatred and wars and economic doomsday's that is unbefitting a man who claims to have been transformed at one time (or ongoing) in his life. ringo tried to get my attention by accusing me of doing nothing that Jesus(as character in a book) asked or demanded of me. I rejected his claim as invalid because he exaggerated (in my mind) by saying I did NOTHING that Jesus told me to do, and, secondly that he himself was not a believer. He has responded to that argument over and over so lets not belabor the point.The point is I DO believe in magic. That God exists.(Which itself would be magic since we have no objective evidence)That God seeks to commune with humanity. That God can and does transform us through the renewing of our mind. That God is not limited by definition from the plethora of human inspired and specific gods of our own imaginations. So what is the definition of magic? Magic is when an old grump like Ebenezer Scrooge has his entire demeanor change. Magic is when a poor person becomes rich (in spirit) and stops begging or stealing. Magic is when a sick person becomes well. Magic is when the people cease fighting each other ideologically and begin to get along.
candle at both ends writes: Theodoric, you do believe in magic.he just said he didn't.
You believe in the magic of chemicals creating life. Liife itself is rare, but would you describe it as magic? Perhaps I might, though Theo would refer to the scientific method and say there is no magic involved.
You believe in fairy tales.In order to do that we would have to believe in fairies, don't you think? jar writes: So are you arguing that only chemicals are involved? Why can't we resurrect a dead corpse through chemicals, then?
We see that it is chemicals and only chemicals that create life even today.jar writes: Remember snarl words and purr words? Learn that words have meaning. I doubt that candle2 would ever read Language In Thought & Action. Heck, I still need to finish it!
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Speaking of fairy tales...
What do you make of this scripture: Matt 12:38-40 writes: Quit looking for signs from Ron Wyatt.
Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from You." 39 But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.NKJV
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