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Member (Idle past 5938 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Meaning Of The Trinity | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I did a bit of detective work. Have you ever heard of Hershel Shanks? He wrote an article on your mentor, Ze'ev Herzog. Herzog's Attack on the Bible Unjustified Herzog was portrayed as a "Biblical Minimalist" and no doubt contributed to many of your assertions that evidence was lacking. Shanks seems to have another view. I told you there were two sides to every story!
I do respect your experience, however, and am in no position to question it. My only question is whether you share much of Herzog's views or whether you are open-minded enough to form your own opinions on whether the exodus happened (at least in some way, even if but a few families participated) and whether you too consider yourself a Biblical Minimalist or entertain the scholarly opinions of men like Hershel Shanks. Edited by Phat, .
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
candle2 writes: My only question is what on earth does "politics" have to do with any scientific evidence?
NASA, under pressure to be politically correct, deleteda portion of the story. They also deleted the images of the "thin red line."
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Noted.
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
We could use a new conservative party. I always liked conservatives such as Eisenhower .
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
candle2, replying to Stile writes: Its one thing to say that an aberrant practice occurred at some time within a given group. Its entirely another thing to label a group as representative of the behavior of one or more members and accuse that group of repeatedly engaging, supporting, or promoting such behavior or action. And I'm guessing that much of your news comes from Fox. They often repeat innuendo and sensationalize actions. To not know this is going on makes you look ignorantof important facts. To be fair (politically) I will agree that there are similarities within human behavior between the ideology of the Left and the ideology of the Right. It seems that the media has a bias, but I will agree that we all need to examine several news sources in order to get a better picture of what the "real story" is on any given event.The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
candle writes: Who do you define as the weak and helpless? Be more specific.
Phat, nothing is more important than protecting theweak and helpless among us. candle writes: Which abhorrent practices are unique to Democrats? My Bible always told me that none were righteous. Jesus died for all. Whosoever(who so chooses) to believe, receive, and remain in Communion with said Holy Spirit will be saved. Right? So how are Democrats any less human than Republicans?
It is the Democratic Party that pushes all of these abhorrent practices. You cannot deny this. I am not hating on anyone. I am just flabbergasted that America has lost its moral values. In my mind, we(the people) have changed. We lost a few and we gained a few. This is also not a party-specific (ideological) issue except in regard to my belief that people question and challenge authority (which authority, BTW?) more than they used to. And this is both a good and bad thing.
Phat, I mentioned on another post that the Church I am That's great, but did your specific church get a heavenly memo that other churches didn't receive? a member of knew after WW2 that East and West Germany would be reunited. The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
candle2 writes: This is an interesting statement. I have a friend who knows his Bible up and down and is a believer. (He is dying of cancer, BTW..keep him in prayer...his name is Mike) and I will ask him about this. He knows more than a lot of Pastors,)
Understand that all tribes are Israelites, but not alltribes are Jews. It would take me days just to write out all that the Again, I will ask a few of the Pastors whom I know. My own Pastor, Ed Taylor teaches some fairly in-depth Bible studies. I might ask him if he has ever heard of that book and/or what he thinks about the premises. Bible says about The House of Judah and the House of Israel. As well as trace them to their present dwellings. I suppose that Geneology qualifies as a science. It certainly is based on historical records, but that would be quite a chore to trace the 12 tribes! I hope that your church isn't overly political. Ed sticks to the Bible and though he does believe we are in the latter days of humanity, he never mentions Democrats or Liberals. I don't trust churches that mix politics with religion.
The most important book that I recommend that you read I'm checking the varied opinions of the internet regarding this book, just like Theodoric does to my sources for stuff. (goes to do a preliminary check)...wow...originally published 1902. This is an old school author! ... is Judah's Sceptre and Joseph's Birthright by J.H. Allen. Wiki writes: I never knew that Episcopalians and Methodists had anything in common. jar attended an Episcopalian church and was educated in a Christian school that I believe may have also been Episcopalian. I'll check later, but as you know jar was more of a logic, reason, and reality critical thinker and a self-proclaimed "Creedal Cradle Christian." He never let his personal beliefs get in the way of his scientific conclusions. He and I disagreed often, but I respected his criticism to a degree. John Harden Allen (1847 – May 14, 1930)[1]: 20 was an American minister associated with the Church of God (Holiness), and British Israelism. He came from Illinois, later moving to Missouri in 1879. Originally a pastor in the Methodist Episcopal Church, he later became a pastor in the Wesleyan Methodist Church in California. He was one of the co-founders of the Church of God (Holiness) in 1883.[2] He "evangelized throughout the West and eventually moved to Pasadena, California, where he died". Now that jar is on sabbatical, the peanut gallery here at EvC has taken up his cause. Ringo is the chief critic assigned to me and keeps me on my toes in matters of expressing myself, always keeping facts, beliefs, evidence, and fantasy separated. He and most of the peanut gallery are non-believers. I wonder why that is?(The E Word! ) Candle2 writes: Are you by chance a member of The Church of God(Holiness)? My ancestors are from Wales. That's as far back as I know. I am from the tribe of Manasseh. My ancestors migratedTo America from Scotland. Many of America's forefathers we are from Scotland or the UK (Ephraim). Which "Tribe" might they be from? We do know that not all of Scotland or Wales was populated exclusively by the 12 tribes, right? The Bible lays out a very dark ending for all Israelites, What's with this idea that *we* (you and I) are English-speaking Israelites?
especially the English-speaking Israelites. It is because we turn our backs on Him and His ways. At one time America and GB were a blessing to the world. According to Ray Dalio America and Britain were both pluralistic nations that represented two of the four "Empires" that he discusses in his book. Any dominant Empire "gives a degree of stability" to the world chiefly because no one wants to attack it.We gave a degree of stability to the world. But, we have become corrupted. We are now in transition between a declining American Empire and an Ascending Chinese one. I'm sure you have some comments on that! I have another book (actually two) on China and the war that they are in with the declining "Empire". They are both audiobooks that I have on Alexa. Now that Jeff Bezos and Amazon have dropped Alexa as a future project, I hope that the device keeps working. FYI these two books are by a retired General (likely conservative) who is nonetheless quite knowledgeable about China. We can discuss them at the Book Nook. I'm in the process of elaborating on my book from Dalio, Principles for dealing with The Changing World Order but I will start a new Book Nook topic on the two books about China. I suppose you could start a topic there too...about your book from Allen. Edited by Phat, : added new subtitle Edited by Phat, : minor corrections The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Oops. I realized now that GDR couldnt reply, so I fixed it.
Edited by Phat, . The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Now let's poke Tangle. He may be off fishing and does not want to be bothered, however. I'll see.
Tangle in 2016 writes: Two "E"words come to mind.
You have it the wrong way round, the difficult thing to swallow is that we're just another animal with a short and fixed lifespan and that this is all there is for us. We have to make the most of what we have now. In other words, we have to grow up and put aside childish beliefs.(...)And we know why that is, it's because we are an evolved ape with all the base instincts of territorialism, competition, carnivourness, and survival that you believe your god inflicted on the world. What you actually have to explain is not all this biblical nonsense but why, having made us this way, he then commands us to be different. Evolution and Enlightenment. In this context, evolution simply means human improvements throughout time. You guys have gone so far as to throw God away. The origin of that began with the Age of Enlightenment quote: My idea of "enlightenment, however, is that moment when one senses a connection emotionally with the Creator of all seen and unseen. As my blood sugars are dropping, i find myself able to write and express myself as I used to do. To me, the idea of a Trinity in no way implies polytheism. Christianity is and was expressed through Christ.GOD, Creator of all seen and unseen (and the God of infinite multiverses, should they exist) is simply "the Father" to Jesus. The Holy Spirit is the comforter...the eternal presence (and awareness of this presence) When He was said to proclaim that "I and My Father are One, He was implying that as a human, He fully understood and personified God's character. Of course, other religions may disagree, but among diversity, there can be unity. The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Tangle writes: Cant... And you wonder why Division exists in religion and in politics! In politics, it got worse when Trump came along, but IIRC it started back when Bush(Dubya) and Gore were deadlocked....which had never before happened in a presidential election. In previous elections, one candidate or the other would usually decisively win (or lose) an election. The charismaniacs (Charismatics) and the rise of non-denominational churches sent the public face of Christian belief into a bizarro world. People fell out and talked in tongues back in the days of the "Great Awakenings" (but) The unholy combination of religious fervor and media exposure turned religion into a circus...a giant infomercial. And in politics, it was much the same. Except that the Conservatives run the religious circus while the Left runs the political media. It is all human nature writ large. It is a sign of the times and you are correct in that religion is declining. One side seeks authority to override the other side (think Supreme Court judges) while the other side seeks only a clear majority of the people. (made more difficult due to election fraud and uncertainty.) And I would argue that the people are willfully ignorant. Both sides! More on religion declining in your new topic.The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Overusing the term "word salad" is much like the boy who cried "wolf".
Again, or maybe I should say still Why do you always criticize my posts and yet seem able to do nothing more than google written criticisms (of my authors) without having an original thought on their content? Could it be because your bias (and ego) are set in stone? One can only wonder... Don't expect me to read too much of Carrier if you don't force yourself to actually read Dalio. I see that you have taken up jars habit of attempting to demolish arguments simply by throwing out criticism and then reframing the argument. We really do need to learn to get along.The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Go ahead criticize Carrier. What is wrong with what he has written? Why should you discount it? Because he attempts to discredit the whole belief of Christianity.The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
candle2 writes: OK. I promise to read it if you watch the video of Ray Dalios book, or read the book itself. He talks a lot about Britain and the US as the two middle empires of the four he mentions. My best advice is for you to read the book.The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo lives in Canada. Ask him if Canada has any issues or restrictions on immigration. I have a conservative friend (like you, though he is not religious.) His parents came to America with virtually nothing. His Dad was from Portugal originally and his Mom came from Argentina. They "believed" in America as the great hope for opportunity and progress that it used to be, as you say and claim. With no formal education, they built their lives here. Dad was a jack of all trades, but he specialized at making shoes and working with leather. He had a job at Gates Rubber here in Denver and this family grew up on the "American Dream". Like my parents, they started out with nothing and made a decent living for themselves, teaching their children to do the same. The only reference to religion that I ever heard from him in regard to his parents was that his Mom was raised Catholic and wanted to become a nun at one point early in her life. Like you, (and perhaps men such as Ray Dalio) they believed in America and what it stood for. They expected (and received) no handouts. Comments?
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.
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Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
GDR, 2016 writes:
Remember this post? Do you have any further enlightenment? I realize that sidelined is long gone from this discussion but I just thought I'd add my take on it. God the Father is straightforward. He is responsible for the fact that we exist at all. The Son, Jesus is as the Gospel of John says --that the Word, (or Wisdom) of God became flesh. Jesus the Son then was the perfect embodiment of the nature of God. If we want to understand the Father then we look to the Son. I suggest it is important to remember that when we say that Jesus is God is that Jesus prayed to the Father even to the point of praying to not be called to go into Jerusalem knowing what would happen to someone who did what He was about to do. It was a great act of faith. I would also go back to Jesus calling Himself the Son of Man. This is an obvious reference to Daniel 7 where the Son of Man is presented to the "Ancient of Days", (God the Father). The Son of Man is then given dominion over an everlasting Kingdom. The Holy Spirit is the connection that we have with God through our consciousness. It is that "still small voice" or what we call conscience that guides us in the direction that we should go. The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894). When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy Nor are Democrats the best party or the only one we should have. -Phat,2022 addressing The Peanut Gallery.
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