Religion is Evil!

DC85!!!!
Man where have you been, great to hear from you! here is my official logical deductions concerning definition of Christians. ( Columbo = me) Personally, I see religion as a strange thing, because people always want to say " No - my God's real, not yours "
AND there will always be division, however people always want an excuse to go warring, and they would do it without religion aswell.My official statement concerning religion :" Religion is a bad thing in the wrong hands! "

I didn't refer to Ned's post Dan, so I'm a bit confused.I agree people are responsible, I guess I'm talking about those who use religion for wrongful reasons. For example, I kill an American and say " allah told me I'd have many wives in paradise if I do this ". - Wrongful use of religion, I guess the religion isn't to blame but rather the people whose hands it ends up in. Click on my link for further clarification.

Fair enough, I have killed two birds with one stone myself in the past. Who here isn't a smartass?

Welcome Chris. Please don't turn this into another Adam and Eve debate about the tree. It's been done so many times here, and I'm sure there's a relevant thread you could use.I agree with you that it seems to be the human's fault concerning wars etc. As you have correctly stated that - many teachings are peaceful. Infact, Tagless made a good point that people IN THE NAME OF religion do war etc. But personally I think there are many very good peaceful religious people who DO follow their religion quietly and without offending or being prejudice towards others. Where we see tolerance of other races/religions in the world we usually see more peace between people. Tolerance and working together despite our differences seems to be a possible way forward. However, as I said earlier (or did I ) people will find any excuse to get their guns out, if it isn't religion it will be something else.

Hi DC85! When I was a child I didn't know the difference between good and evil, yet I obeyed my father because he is all I knew. Also - I went against him and I knew I had went against him. His booming voice would nearly make me piss my panties So I would know not to go against him again, and if I did - I would recieve spanked hide, and that would really get my panties wet. Nowadays - I'd throw the tyrant through the window. Added: Sorry I think I lost a sensible point in there somewhere.[This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 02-18-2004]

Well, they didn't take spanks forever. When they died sin was still in the world via their offspring. But interestingly, the ground " was cursed for their sakes " (from memory).P.S. Chris, you do not have to apologize to me, I am not a moderator - just another Christian poster like your good self.

Could you quote the precept or are you talking about an EVENT in the OT?Please show where God says it is good to kill, quote it and also I'd like to here a quote from Christ as he would surely teach us to kill if it is a good thing. His/our so called religion is Christianity, we adhere to Christ's teachings so I really do need you to quote something from Jesus that indicates God tells us to kill(teaching). Or are you wrong and he does not tell US to kill because you are infact referring to an EVENT - Thanks Schraff.[This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 02-23-2004]

But you said " except when your God tells you it's a good thing to kill ". I have read Leviticus, and I do see harsh penalties for sin, yes - sin. This is fully understood by me. The wages of sin is death. Killing is no good thing, and as Christians follow Christ - Christ says it's even wrong to get angry with your brother, or you will be in danger of the Commandment. Well, I recall the stoning of a blasphemer and the burning of an adulterer? Notice they sinned firstly though. But despite this, like you said - I take the Bible as a whole, so then, I cannot ignore it when Jesus says such things as:" Let he who is without sin cast the first stone "This fully shows how killing is definately not acceptable to a Christian, and furthermore Christ's other teachings about these things. All I'm doing is taking the full Bible as teaching. I can deny it, infact I can completely and confidently tell you that they have failed to meet the definition of Christian in every way, they have infact probably never read the NT and understood. But there is absolutely no interpretation in the Bible that can justify their actions unless you get rid of Christ. I am sure they called themselves Christian, look here for my full definition of what a Christian must do in order to claim Christianity. If you read the lower half of the post I am sure you will understand what I am getting at. I apreciate what you are saying - that people who call and have called themselves Christians have killed in the past. But you must realise that we have a complete understanding that these people were or did not meet the criteria as to following Christ's teachings. To say God says it's good to kill is simply not true. If you can show me a scripture that is more important than one of the main Commandments, " Thou shalt not kill " which was written IN STONE, in Leviticus then I will stop arguing. But, I do not recall God saying it's good to kill to us at all, and also - nothing in the OT is more important (teachings) than the Commandments.[This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 02-24-2004]

If he is saved by grace he is not under the law, you see Schraff? We consider another Biblical book now, this time from the NT - Galatians, which says if you are saved by grace you recieve the fruit of the spirit which fulfills the law. Phatboy was correct the first time, because in Leviticus - near the end of the book, God infact says that the law he mad was for the Jews, he says I should obey it if I am a sojourner in their land.All we are doing here is taking your advice and taking all of the Bible into account.

Cop out from what?
Are you blaming me for someone elses atrocities? - I have already said - I detest what they done, in the name of Christianity. But I am afraid they have still failed to follow Christ's teachings. Why then were the ten Commandments written in stone?
It is obvious that they are the greatest Commandments - it's a given.You say:" This would mean that killing is fine as long as it is justified/endorsed by god's decree. "Maybe, but why split hairs? We know the importance of not killing and loving our enemy. Have you ever killed sorcerers and witches or adulterous wives?
No? Neither have I. Didn't Christ say it was an eye for an eye in the past but now it will be better to turn the other cheek? - And instead to love your enemy.

Infact there it is in your quote. Exactly, Christianity's name - yes. But a true Christian is one who follows Christ's teachings, regardless of other people, let's say rapists/killers, and is not one who does atrocities in the name of Christianity. If let's say a so called fellow of the faith came up to me and said " I am Christian - I am going to take Jerusalem by force in Christ's name "
I would say to him, " You can do it in the name of pob but as soon as you put down your scripture and take up your weapon you will no longer be a Christian as you are going to kill, and look here, Christ says love your enemy ".Do you now understand Schraff' or should I give you the definition link AGAIN?Past atrocities are not relevant to the definition of Christian. I do not commit atrocities - I haven't in the past and you can only logically define me as one who " follows Christ and his teachings ". I am not making excuses for killers of the past. If anything I am saying that their murderous cause was in no way for Christ. A Christian only follows Christ, you cannot throw us in with murderers if we have not murdered, and you do not change the definition of Christian because people fail to meet it.[This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 02-24-2004]

Schraf': No. I said he doesn't have to follow the Commandments because he is not under the law, if he is saved by grace then he has recieved the fruit of the spirit and the fruit of the spirit fulfills the law, or is not against it. More is written about this in Galatians. Well, if they think killing is justified and partake in such activity they are not Christian to me. People who read Jesus's words can in no way justify killing without having to miss out, or get rid of some of the other teachings. Here is an example of taking the whole book into account - which infact is an axcellent point, did you make that point?
A so called "Christian" says that his wife blasphemed and so he says, like in Leviticus he shall stone her. He will have to now get rid of Jesus's teaching: " Let he who is without sin cast the first stone ". Also many other teachings... " If you're even angry with your brother you're in danger of the Commandment ". And there are the obvious teachings about forgiveness etc. So you see, these people cannot justify there actions. You ask: Christ said people will claim to know him and he shall say " I never knew you " - You're indeed intelligent, I'll let you figure that one out. One thing is for sure, the New Testament is incredibly packed with teachings from Christ, I sometimes wonder if I am truly saved or born again. If I think it is hard for me to qualify then believe me - a murderer and doer of atrocities, in my opinion stands no chance of being saved. And those kind of actions are gonna be kinda hard to justify on judgement day. But have you read when the Son of man shall seperate the sheep from the goats? Or Revelation concerning the fait of murderers? Ofcourse it is only my opinion that murderers have no chance of being saved and that is where I could be wrong. So you can see how it is very easy to say you are Christian but Christ indeed let's us know that you have to mean it. My Bible quotes were from memory and may not be entirely accurateSo, when defining a sheep from a goat I guess that will be left for the Shepard to do.[This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 02-26-2004]