Religion is Evil!

quote:

---

goodness in humanity has nothing to do with any religion."
I don't believe that this is a right statement. What I do agree is that humanity now is affected by religions, try to imagine if there's no religion. No rules from God which people use now.

---

The rules of religion (morality) are not from God, they are from people.If God decided it was moral to rape and pillage at will, would it then be considered OK by His followers to rape and pilliage?If you say that God wouldn't consider raping and pilliaging moral, then God is bound by moral rules rather than being the source of morality.So, morality, being a human invention, can and does exist without belief in any dieties, let alone your particular god. Morality is a social convention that developed to make living in groups more pleasant.

quote:

---

But again some people use or made rules in the name of religion to cover their sins or they prefer their names to be praised.. like some Hebrews in the Bible, who hated Jesus.

---

...or like many Christians who hate Jews, or Muslims.

quote:

---

If there's no religion.. how people know that killing is bad?

---

They are taught by their parents and the society at large, just like they are today. There is no need to teach any of this in a religious context, although it can help.Of course, some religions, such as Christianity, have taught that killing is OK as long as God tell us to do it.

quote:

---

You read the Bible you surely know.. Moses even killed an Egyptian because the Egyptian was smiting on an Hebrew. (Exodus 2:11)
People didn't know that killing others is a sin for God.

---

...except when your God tells you that it's a good thing to kill, such as when the Israelites slaughtered the Caananites in the OT.

quote:

---

So He gave 10 commandments so people know something about what are considerable as sins for God.

---

The commandment about killing is usually mistranslated. It is more accurately translated, "Thou shall not murder. So, it's not killing, per se, which is forbidden, but murder.[This message has been edited by schrafinator, 02-23-2004]

quote:

---

By acting on the assumption that He doesn't exist when in fact He might, acting in such a way that He, if He does in fact exist, is deeply pained. The arrogance of assuming that you are right on a debatable issue is no excuse for behavior that unjustly causes pain to Someone. Atheism is thus a hate-crime against God, as long as reasonable, well-intentioned respected persons (such as Tolkein, or CS Lewis, or Bonhoffer) argue that it is likely that He is really alive and present.

---

Well, what if I find SIX authors of fiction and philosophers who argue that it is unlikely that God is really alive and present.That would beat your three, right?Or, it could be that your Argumant from Authority is fallacious and meaningless.

quote:

---

They could be wrong or right, of course. But only someone who hates God would assume that they are wrong, and then engage in inconsiderate actions that would cause pain to God if they, and not you, are right.

---

So, do you believe in all of the gods of all of the world's religions, just in case you might be causing pain to one or many of them in case you are not right?

quote:

---

Please show where God says it is good to kill, quote it and also I'd like to here a quote from Christ as he would surely teach us to kill if it is a good thing. His/our so called religion is Christianity, we adhere to Christ's teachings so I really do need you to quote something from Jesus that indicates God tells us to kill(teaching). Or are you wrong and he does not tell US to kill because you are infact referring to an EVENT - Thanks Schraff.

---

Why do I have to quote something from Jesus when the OT is part of the bible that you read and supposedly follow?At any rate, take a peek at Leviticus for a lot of laws about who to kill and why, according to God.Also, you cannot deny that there have been many Christians in the past (Crusades, Inquisition, Salem Witch Hunt) and a more than a few in the present (Ireland, abortion clinic terrorism, KKK terrorism) who have killed because their interpretation of their religion told them it was good to do.If not good, then justified and neccessary.

quote:

---

But, why some people which have different religion and or different place have different morality?

---

Well, at a very basic level, all cultures have similar moral codes.The differences are decided upon within the culture.

quote:

---

Place could give big influence on the morality of a person, and the place's morality usually influenced by that place's religion.
Why place's morality or morality of the people on that place usually influenced by that place's religion?
I could be wrong on this. Could you give me your point of view, so I could understand also?

---

I agree that the culture in which one is raised influences one's personal moral code and pretty much determines what religion they will follow.

quote:

---

Maybe you have wrong idea about Christianity. Christianity came from Christ, Jesus Christ's teachings. Where did you read in the Bible, saying that Jesus said, "it's good to kill"?, like Mike said.
He even told us to love our enemies.
I think you have confused it with other religion.

---

Well, what do you call it when Christians seek to destroy other groups because they believe God is endorsing their actions? That has happened periodically throughout the history of Christianity and continues on smaller scales today?

quote:

---

I thought you were agree that you have to look Bible as a whole, not pieces? (You wrote that in other thread).

---

Absolutely, except then one is left with a lot of mixed messages.

quote:

---

If I may know.. what religion do you follow?

---

None. I am Agnostic.

quote:

---

I apreciate what you are saying - that people who call and have called themselves Christians have killed in the past. But you must realise that we have a complete understanding that these people were or did not meet the criteria as to following Christ's teachings.

---

And I have repeatedly argued that this is a cop-out and a way to excuse artocities committed by Christians.It is too easy to wave away all behavior done in Christianity's name we consider terrible as being perpetrated by people who weren't "real" Christians.It is a way to avoid admitting that Christians, sometimes very large numbers of them, can and do perform and condone horrible acts, just like any other group of people.

quote:

---

To say God says it's good to kill is simply not true. If you can show me a scripture that is more important than one of the main Commandments, " Thou shalt not kill " which was written IN STONE, in Leviticus then I will stop arguing.

---

First of all, who is to say which part of the bible is more important than any other? You?Second, many biblical scholars say that the more accurate translation of "Thou shalt not kill" is "Thou shalt not murder". This would mean that killing is fine as long as it is justified/endorsed by god's decree.

quote:

---

But, I do not recall God saying it's good to kill to us at all,

---

...except when we are killing sorcerers and witches and disobedient children and adulterous wives.

quote:

---

and also - nothing in the OT is more important (teachings) than the Commandments.

---

...according to you.

quote:

---

Because the OT was a different dispensation towards humanity and does not apply to us today.

---

No? You don't follow the ten commandments?

quote:

---

The OT from The Law on was written to the Jewish people. Before the Law was given, the OT was written for the Pagan people with no religion.

---

LOL! Pagan people had their own religions, Phatboy! Where would you get the idea that they didn't have their own religions?The Jews were simply imposing their religion on the people they defeated in battle.

OK, Mike, do you actually mean to tell me that the ten Commandments are not that important to Christianity?

quote:

---

Cop out from what?
Are you blaming me for someone elses atrocities?

---

No.

quote:

---

- I have already said - I detest what they done, in the name of Christianity. But I am afraid they have still failed to follow Christ's teachings.

---

But who gets to decide if they were following Christ's teachings or not? You? Themselves? The prominent religious leaders of their times? The individual religious leaders? Religious leaders who preceded them or followed them?The reason it's a copout is because it's a way to automatically distance yourself from any behavior you don't like which was performed by people who were Christians.Look at it this way:The KKK is an American white supremecist group.At the height of their power and popularity, they had millions of members across the country and in all levels of government, and even enjoyed the public favor of US President Wilson, and candidate Truman was actually a member for a short time.Are we to now look back and tidily excuse and distance ourselves from their atrocities by saying, "They aren't/weren't real Americans because Americans believe in equality!"?Or do we ask ourselves, "What is it about America which allowed so many Americans to believe that the KKK was a good and just organization?"The KKK was also an explicitly Christian organization, as many white supremacist organizations are. It's similarly a cop-out to simply say that they aren't "real Christians", instead of examining what it is about Christianity which has allowed so many millions of people over the centuries to perpetrate atrocities in Christianity's name.

quote:

---

Why then were the ten Commandments written in stone?
It is obvious that they are the greatest Commandments - it's a given.

---

But didn't you just say that Phatboy doesn't have to follow the ten commandments because it's in the OT??

quote:

---

A: " This would mean that killing is fine as long as it is justified/endorsed by god's decree. "

​

Maybe, but why split hairs? We know the importance of not killing and loving our enemy.

---

Considering how much killing is commanded by God in the Bible, and the fact that the OT is a rather large part of the Christian Bible, why is it so strange to you that some Christians interpret the Bible so differently from you that they consider certain killings justified?

quote:

---

A TRUE Christian, of which perhaps 3 out of ten are, is a Christian due to impartation of the Holy Spirit. While not perfect, these sort of people do not knowingly sin in such a way as you describe.

---

But back when the Crusades were happening, they didn't consider what they wete doing to be sinful. In fact, they believed they were doing God's work.Also, who gets to decide who those three "real Christians" out of ten are?You? Why are you qualified? How is anyone qualified to judge?

quote:

---

I would say that Biblical scholars who themselves recognize the living Spirit of God would be the true judges of scriptural interpretation.

---

Who gets to judge which scholars are "real" believers and which ones just think they are "real believers" but aren't?Are only 3 out of 10 Biblical scholars who also consider themselves Christian, actually real Christians?How can we tell? Who gets to judge?

quote:

---

So you agree that religion pretty much influences morality?

---

Of course. Religion is part of the culture and influences morality, both for good and bad.

quote:

---

Since you are Agnostic, you must have studied other religions too. Did you find other religion that teaches love like this? (Just curious).

---

While I have not doen an extensive seach of religions, mainly because I am not looking to become religious (I don't think we can know if God exists or not), but I am attracted to several:Buddhism is a wonderfully peaceful religion which teaches non-violence and love for all things.The Bahai faith is also very loving and non-violent, being based on equality and unity.