Religion is Evil!

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An agnostic, who simply doesn't know something, is responsible to learn. To ignore some source of knowledge is to be ignorant, which is disrespectable, even despicable. Anyone who is agnostic who is not applying themselves to learning, to dispelling their lack of knowledge, is below contempt.

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Sounds like you are in big trouble then considering your complete lack of knowledge about molecular biology and evolution.

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The most important thing to learn, for a human, is the rules for learning, for knowing.

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Your Christ like humbleness in telling everyone what is the most important for them is astounding.

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If they decide, in other words, that the current state of their knowledge or lack of knowledge is fine, that the ideas they believe in are so sure to be true that they needn't examine them, well, the sooner they are destroyed, the better. My job then is simply to expose this decision, so God can justly get rid of them, the way our farmers get rid of mad-cows or bird-flu chickens.

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Sounds like god (played by Al Pacino) is coming to rub you out since you have demonstrated absolutely no interest in learning since you entered this site and have repeatedly demonstrated that you are very comfortable with your ignorance....and why are the cows mad cows? According to you they are merely possessed by demons since they sure fart a lot. It is also ironic that you claim that pointing out the "bad people " to your myth is your job...at least you ackowledge that your profession is not science.

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First, God Himself, if He is out there as described and believed, is perfect love

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..and boy what an example of perfect love or the striving to imitate perfect love you are You have taken hypocrisy to a state of near perfection however.

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Disbelieving in Him will therefore cause Him perfect pain.

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...then he should create ex nihilo the perfect gas relief pill (to get rid of those demons) to get rid of the perfect pain.

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If you have ever had someone you love turn away from and ignore (be ignorant of) you, you know what this means.

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Some of us have been spared this misfortune by not treating our loved ones like shit, acting psychotically, and driving them away with our arrogance leading in a bitter divorce...you obviously in your perfect jesus like love were not spared...plausibility of demons/Jehovah just dropped from 0 to -0.1

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Also, when a great, passionate lover is betrayed or ignored, life becomes miserable for their whole household. "When momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy." Again, the wrath of a passionate lover when their beloved is hurt by someone, is terrible. When someone ignorant of the great lover purposely or accidently harms, say, their beloved little child, expect trouble.

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Ooooh I saw that episode to...wasn't it the Waltons? or was it Falcon Crest?

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Second, the rest of us need the believing prayers of everyone. Anyone not praying is leaving the rest of us open to evil, the worse kind of evil.

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Those who approach you with anything but a gag and straight jacket are opening themselves up to the worst kind of nonsense.

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Well, that's enough. If you are agnostic, get busy. Find a wise teacher that you know personally, and ask them to teach you applied epistemology, how you know whether or not a given idea is likely to be true. Or be contemptible by folks like me.

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Well, that't enough. Get busy. Get a good psychiatrist, get some strong medication, up your electro shock therapy voltage and spend the rest of your life trying to form a coherent thought.You could easily be in the top twenty reasons to become an atheist...who wants to be such an feeble minded bigot jackass like you?Get over yourself Stephen ben hypocrisy

He has repeatedly aimed his comments at anyone who disagrees with him..not just agnostics.

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You may be intellectually arrogant

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ok, I'll bite...why?

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, but you are NOT self righteously arrogant

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I know I know..but I am working on it

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Can we talk

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Sure..or we can dance if we want to but we have to leave your friends behind, because if your friends can't dance they are no friends of mine

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Intellectuals can be self righteous in that they have studied many different sources of knowledge and wisdom. Some of them are still humble enough to acknowledge a power greater than themselves yet for many of them, the only thing greater than themselves is the collective wisdom and reason of humanity.

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I disagree for several reasons. First off, many intellectuals do believe in a supreme being unless you are suggesting all believers are unintellectual? Second, if you are equating intellectual with scientist (which may or may not be the case) we are restricted to methodological naturalism and the existence or non-existence of god/gods/any diety like entity is completely irrelevant. Anecdote, personal experience, other non testable non falsifiable hypothesis or experiments are of no use in describing natural phenomenon. Finally, I find that many believers are actually far more arrogant. They claim that their beliefs coupled with ignorance of science is the equivalent of universal certitude. Scientists have to live with the tentativity inherent in methodological naturalism and even the most arrogant ass of a scientist stands in awe of nature and at the amount we do not know.

You shifted halfway in your post to one of crashfrogs but I will address what I think you were asking me.

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Based on this statement, I see that you are a believer of some sort. Since you disagree with my assessment of collective human wisdom being the highest pinnacle,(for you) what is it that you believe in?

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No, I am an atheist. My point is that one need not believe in a higher intelligence or power to be awed by nature. What you mean by highest pinnacle is unclear. Do you mean for you the highest pinnacle of wisdom is the unquestioning belief in a book even when read literally is often in complete contradiction with reality? This seems rather peculiar.

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So now we are back to defining this supreme being. For me, He is Jesus Christ. God Incarnate. Crashfrog says to Chris:

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For some scientists it is the christian flavor of diety. Some are jewish, muslim, hindu, buddhist,..I even had a colleague who thought she was a witch and believed in a mix of various forms of mysticism. Good luck defining a supreme being however, nobody else seems to agree on it even within the same religious groups.

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And I am puzzled at what Crashfrog means by "us." If he is referring to "us" as intellectuals, then I ask what type of an intellectual. A believer in a source higher than humanity or not?

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Ok...I will keep going even though this is for crash
By us I think he means anybody who might disagree with the specific beliefs of chris.

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OK, Crashfrog. You say that God does not exist. Atheists have rejected Christ. Why?

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..and they don't believe in the easter bunny, Santa, Vishnu, Zeus or Thor either. There are many fictitious beings that people have pulled out of their imaginations throughout human history...I have no more reason to believe in them than in any other human constructed myth. I have no need to use mythology as a crutch to get me through the day.

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Their source is either collective human wisdom or their own wisdom. My point is proven. To an atheist, human wisdom is the highest pinnacle.

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That is an position to take. Considering knowledge, particularly scientific knowledge, is something that continues to develope over time and is by all involved, very incomplete and always tentative, it is hard to consider it the highest pinnacle of anything.

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Human nature tends to rebel at an authority higher than ourselves. Even for believers. But we are working on it.

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Considering how many religious conflicts are going on at any given time, it does not appear that the believers are working particularly hard.

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If a group of people are standing around admiring a painting, each person can and does have an opinion of the meaning of the painting according to the artist, according to their own interpretation, and according to the style and the time that the painting was made. No one opinion is any more valid or true than any other opinion.

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Ok, I follow you up to here..then,

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The only individual who by right should have a higher opinion than the sum of the human opinion about the painting is the artist.

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Why? Sometimes people get something special from a painting, a song, a poem that the artists may never have intended or could never have imagined. Why should what the artist feels his/her painting means be "higher" than anyone elses?

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To us as Christian believers, we have met the artist. The architect of the world that we live in. The master designer of the universe. He created the very definition of logic, order, love and law. He stands alone as our Messiah--our Savior--our God.

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To non-Christians and non-believers this is fantasy and opinion. According to the first part of your post "no one opinion is any more valid or true than any other opinion".

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The word was not created by human authors 80 years after the fact. The word was the word before humanity even entered the picture.

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However, this is evidence free...and I don't believe it.

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Whether or not you choose to accept and believe in Him, He does exist.

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However, this would be a you say I say type of argument. It is not supported by evidence but is your faith. I don't share it but I also respect your right to your belief.

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I respect your intelligence on matters pertaining to science. I am no creationist in the literal sense, except as to the fact that He was in the beginning, He is now, and He always shall be

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That is fine, it also suggests we will not (or should not) be in conflict over subjects like evolution which are scientific. Theistic evolutionists, which include many scientists who accept evolution, would alos agree with your above statement.

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Try convincing Him that you made Him up!

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I'm not Steve Fretwell...I don't spend my time having conversations with things I don't believe exist.