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Author Topic:   Religion is Evil!
DC85
Member (Idle past 379 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 1 of 228 (85442)
02-11-2004 4:47 PM


Ok I want to have a debate about Religion and if any of them serve anything good from them. I will start
Religion has Brought on most of the Wars in this world and still leads people to hate others outside their own faith.
Your turn give me a pro or negative religion statement not a big post just something short like this.
Edited by DC85, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Dan Carroll, posted 02-11-2004 4:58 PM DC85 has not replied
 Message 4 by ThingsChange, posted 02-11-2004 5:31 PM DC85 has not replied
 Message 12 by mike the wiz, posted 02-12-2004 9:31 AM DC85 has not replied
 Message 18 by Stephen ben Yeshua, posted 02-17-2004 3:23 PM DC85 has replied
 Message 20 by Taqless, posted 02-18-2004 12:27 AM DC85 has not replied
 Message 21 by miss smartie pants yes um, posted 02-18-2004 12:43 AM DC85 has not replied
 Message 138 by Phat, posted 01-15-2012 12:02 PM DC85 has not replied

  
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 228 (85454)
02-11-2004 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by DC85
02-11-2004 4:47 PM


You might want to toss this bad boy right on into the Free For All forum. Beat the rush.
Regardless, I'll say the same thing here that I said about Darwin and Nazis. How someone uses an idea doesn't mean the idea itself is evil.
[This message has been edited by Dan Carroll, 02-11-2004]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by DC85, posted 02-11-2004 4:47 PM DC85 has not replied

  
DC85
Member (Idle past 379 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 3 of 228 (85455)
02-11-2004 5:01 PM


oh I just use that topic to attract attention... Maybe I should have used a different title.... anyway I agree the concept of what is good and what is evil is not clean cut...

  
ThingsChange
Member (Idle past 5926 days)
Posts: 315
From: Houston, Tejas (Mexican Colony)
Joined: 02-04-2004


Message 4 of 228 (85468)
02-11-2004 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by DC85
02-11-2004 4:47 PM


in favor of religion
DC85 writes:
Religion has Brought on most of the Wars in this world...
Is that a subjective guess, or do you have a stat to reference?
The desire for power, wealth and territory has quite a share of wars, too. Ask Kuwait.
Religion ......still leads people to hate others outside there own faith
Your opinion, not a fact. Christians don't hate other religions, they just think they're going to hell. Why would Christians make an effort to "save" the ones they hate?
The good from Religion, IMO:
Promotes helping others rather than selfishness.
Promotes good value system. Without trust and honesty in a majority, democracy would collapse. (ponder this: if Mexico is Catholic and full of corruption, are the corrupt ones religious or not?)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by DC85, posted 02-11-2004 4:47 PM DC85 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Silent H, posted 02-11-2004 7:50 PM ThingsChange has not replied

  
AdminBrian
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 228 (85470)
02-11-2004 5:38 PM


I think this topic would take up a fair amount of moderator's time if left here.
An emotive topic such as this is sure to agitate a lot of members, so I think we will pop it off over to the FFA.
Any objections, shout at the Moose
AdminBrian

  
AdminBrian
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 228 (85473)
02-11-2004 5:40 PM


Thread moved here from the Faith and Belief forum.

  
DC85
Member (Idle past 379 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 7 of 228 (85476)
02-11-2004 5:50 PM


Look at all the things still going on. I mean its insane..... the Jewish and Islam... Look at all the wars and the people killed over religion... Given a Good amount of wars aren't religion problems(mainly now but the hate still exists) Remember World War 2? I can go on and on. thats what I meant. I guess this isn't going to be the way I intended the topic but this is fine to.
Even though religions say they promote good things That mainly isn't the chase. How many times have you heard a negative comment toward another religion "stupid Jews" etc.... They teach peace but most don't follow it. I know for me Being away from religion keeps me more open minded to other people Very little do I discriminate. I hated much more as a christen.

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by NosyNed, posted 02-11-2004 5:53 PM DC85 has replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 8 of 228 (85479)
02-11-2004 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by DC85
02-11-2004 5:50 PM


WW II
Remember World War 2?
What do you have to demonstrate the WW2 was a religous war?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by DC85, posted 02-11-2004 5:50 PM DC85 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by DC85, posted 02-11-2004 7:15 PM NosyNed has replied

  
DC85
Member (Idle past 379 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 9 of 228 (85501)
02-11-2004 7:15 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by NosyNed
02-11-2004 5:53 PM


Re: WW II
well not the war itself but People where killed for religon which had ALOT to do with it

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by NosyNed, posted 02-11-2004 5:53 PM NosyNed has replied

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 10 of 228 (85517)
02-11-2004 7:49 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by DC85
02-11-2004 7:15 PM


Re: WW II
Since both sides were mostly Christian how do you arrive at this conclusion? I think you need to back this up with evidence and logic.

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 Message 9 by DC85, posted 02-11-2004 7:15 PM DC85 has not replied

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5819 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 11 of 228 (85518)
02-11-2004 7:50 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by ThingsChange
02-11-2004 5:31 PM


quote:
Your opinion, not a fact. Christians don't hate other religions, they just think they're going to hell. Why would Christians make an effort to "save" the ones they hate?
Oh Puh-lease! While it is true that not every Xian hates other religions, and not every one cares about saving others, but to claim this is not a facet of many Xians (especially across history) is ludicrous.
What were the inquisitions? What were missionaries across the globe? In fact, what ARE missionaries TODAY? What is the entire tenet of evangalism except to proselytize?
Did you not hear about the pilot that just this week scared passengers by announcing he had just come back from a mission (ahem) and that anyone who was nonXian was crazy and should take the time the flight offered to talk to Xians about faith?
You are an extreme apologist for Xians which I think does your cause a great injustice.
In answer to the question this thread poses...
I think religions are not intrinsically anything. Perhaps it is a bit deluding regarding how the world actually operates, but then even scientists are deluded if they feel they know how the world truly operates (beyond a few specific mechanisms).
Religions do allow people to have a belief in something greater than themselves which can help inspire them to great acts of creativity, or healing (for the sick). It is a psychological edge which cannot be denied.
They can also help act as the primary institution for socialization.
I think the only real time religion poses a problem, is when it becomes the focus of fundamentalist thinking (zealotry), when the leaders of religious organizations seek greater power through its institutions, or government and religion become ties together. But NONE of these are inherent to religion.
Yet I feel I must make this point again, in defending religion (even Xianity), we cannot suddenly start pretending the above problems have NOT occured, or are not occuring, or could not become a problem in the future. They have been, are, and will be the reality of having religious belief.
And it is also not fair to play the "no true scotsman" card to disassociate a religion from many of the abuses done in the name of the religion. You can say YOU don't practice that version, but that is not the same thing as saying that version was not religious (or related to your religion) at all.

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
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mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 12 of 228 (85723)
02-12-2004 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by DC85
02-11-2004 4:47 PM


DC85!!!!
Man where have you been, great to hear from you!
here is my official logical deductions concerning definition of Christians. ( Columbo = me) Personally, I see religion as a strange thing, because people always want to say " No - my God's real, not yours "
AND there will always be division, however people always want an excuse to go warring, and they would do it without religion aswell.
My official statement concerning religion :
" Religion is a bad thing in the wrong hands! "

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by DC85, posted 02-11-2004 4:47 PM DC85 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Dan Carroll, posted 02-12-2004 9:34 AM mike the wiz has replied

  
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 228 (85725)
02-12-2004 9:34 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by mike the wiz
02-12-2004 9:31 AM


Ned writes:
Since both sides were mostly Christian how do you arrive at this conclusion? I think you need to back this up with evidence and logic.
Ah, I think he's referring to Jews killed in the holocaust because of their religion. It sounds like (and I might be wrong) he's making the mistake of thinking we went to war because we:
1) Knew about the holocaust
and
2) Gave a shit.
Mike writes:
Religion is a bad thing in the wrong hands!
Remember... crucifixes don't kill people, people kill godless heathens!

"It isn't faith that makes good science, it's curiosity."
-Professor Barnhard, The Day the Earth Stood Still

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by mike the wiz, posted 02-12-2004 9:31 AM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by mike the wiz, posted 02-12-2004 10:52 AM Dan Carroll has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 14 of 228 (85750)
02-12-2004 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Dan Carroll
02-12-2004 9:34 AM


I didn't refer to Ned's post Dan, so I'm a bit confused.
I agree people are responsible, I guess I'm talking about those who use religion for wrongful reasons. For example, I kill an American and say " allah told me I'd have many wives in paradise if I do this ". - Wrongful use of religion, I guess the religion isn't to blame but rather the people whose hands it ends up in. Click on my link for further clarification.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Dan Carroll, posted 02-12-2004 9:34 AM Dan Carroll has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Dan Carroll, posted 02-12-2004 10:54 AM mike the wiz has replied

  
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 228 (85751)
02-12-2004 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by mike the wiz
02-12-2004 10:52 AM


quote:
I didn't refer to Ned's post Dan, so I'm a bit confused.
Oh, I was just responding to both of you in one post.
Two ideas, one post. And we pass the savings off to you.
And as for the rest of it, I was really just being a smartass.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by mike the wiz, posted 02-12-2004 10:52 AM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 17 by Phat, posted 02-17-2004 3:14 PM Dan Carroll has not replied

  
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