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Author | Topic: Will The Real God Please Stand Up? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
dwise1 Member Posts: 5952 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
As you will continue to carry on with your own false beliefs.
You came upon this feeling by reading books about religion. Who wrote those books? Fellow fallible humans. They described to you what their ideas about God were and you adopted their ideas modified by your own ideas and your own misunderstanding of what they had written (complete and perfect transfer of knowledge about religion is virtually impossible, so misunderstanding what one had read is normal). To claim that you did not misunderstand any of it and received all that knowledge perfectly would mean that you are some form of super-human. Really? I've seen your other stuff, so I'm not buying that. Like every other imperfect and fallible human, you have constructed imperfect ideas of God that fall far short of describing the real thing and it is those imperfect ideas that to you are God. All of that has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not there exists anything that even begins to approximate what you would call "God." BTW, you claimed that you have proof that the earth is young, yet you refuse to present it. That tells us that you do not have such proof and you know full well that you do not have that proof.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
When I came to believe in my forties, entirely through reading books about religion, it was with the overwhelming sense of a Reality I couldn't possibly have imagined existing before And subsequently, your reading has led you to believe that the Jesuit's assassinated Lincoln, that Obama was born in Kenya, that witchcraft really works and that leprechauns are real demons. Why would anybody be convinced by your testimony about your "overwhelming sense of Reality" Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I believe the evidence supports all that, yes. But that's an entirely different order of things than belief in God.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Every form of knowledge involves fallible humans, so I guess we shouldn't believe anyone about anything, just hole up in a cave. Certainly you should because you believe in the fallible human work of science.
I never used the word "perfectly" but I found believers all agreeing on the basics based on the Bible which we all accept as God's own personal communication to us. I've presented the proofs of the young earth many times and now I've presented yet another on the Evolution - we have the Fossils thread. .
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: I never used the word "perfectly" but I found believers all agreeing on the basics based on the Bible which we all accept as God's own personal communication to us. Now Faith, you know that is just another of your Porkies. What you mean is that believers in your cult all agree on some basics except when they do not agree which is why there are so many different chapters of your cult.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
What I mean is that believers in orthodox traditional historical Christianity that goes back to the apostles and is best formulated in the Reformers of the sixteenth century and carried through all the orthodox churches today, agree on the basics of the orthodox traditional historical Christian faith. I also read a lot of heretical writings on my journey to Christianity and learned to reject them as I learned to recognize the truth. For instance, I read Athanasius whose love for truth shines in his work, who trounced the heresies of his day.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
So you agree that what you mean is that those who believe what you believe believe what you believe except when they do not believe what you believe.
Yes Faith, we believe you believe that.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Just as I said to dwise it's remarkable how you can accuse me of being caught in a loop of unverifiable suppositions and forget that it must mean that you are too, and with that the possibility of any knowledge at all goes down the drain and I certainly don't have to take anything you say seriously.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: Just as I said to dwise it's remarkable how you can accuse me of being caught in a loop of unverifiable suppositions and forget that it must mean that you are too, and with that the possibility of any knowledge at all goes down the drain and I certainly don't have to take anything you say seriously. Too funny Faith; yet another of your sill porkies. Yes Virginia, there are things that can be verified by comparing them to reality yet the basics of your cult starts off by a statement that you must consider a fantasy as the ultimate base for your beliefs. Your whole worldview is based on what you claim we are using and the evidence for your fantasy world begins with the Chicago Statement on Biblical Fantasy.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Then why is She incapable of communicating Her presence to us? And quantifying/defining Herself to us? Why not at least show Herself in a long white robe and a long white beard, sitting on a long white cloud? I'm not convinced that my Deity is hiding from us. More likely, we are incapable of quantifying/defining Her.An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I read a bit about him. He does have good credentials!
quote: Acceptance of a basic canon is considered to be one of the expectations of whichever church one chooses to belong. This whole idea of simply framing the bible as a creation of humans means that our faith rests on human wisdom (or the lack thereof).
jar writes: She claims to be able to recognize truth within scriptures rather than simply interpreting them with human wisdom. So you agree that what you mean is that those who believe what you believe (do so) except when they do not believe what you believe.Yes Faith, we believe you believe that. Keep in mind that the Chicago bunch is quite large and numerous...no mere splinter cult there.
jar writes: What statement are you referring to? Yes Virginia, there are things that can be verified by comparing them to reality yet the basics of your cult starts off by a statement that you must consider a fantasy as the ultimate base for your beliefs.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I don't know if Faith would like those credentials. She seems to think "orthodox" means evangelical fundamentalist. He does have good credentials!
quote: Point of trivia: There's a St. Athanasius Church a few blocks from where I'm sitting - Ukrainian Catholic.An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Then why is She incapable of communicating Her presence to us? Perhaps "She" has tried numerous times and yet you reject any hint of authenticity due to lack of evidence. Your insistence on physical evidence may ultimately doom you to an eternity of waiting. But enough of this ongoing squabble. We have our courtroom. The candidates are still in the docket. And since today is my day off, I plan on writing my hypothetical Just So chapter after I run a few errands. As far as the Deity quantifying and/or defining Herself, have you no imagination? After all, some bozo concocted the spaghetti monster and yet here he sits in our docket awaiting confirmation. The least you could do is take the initiative to create a candidate of your own rather than seek to dismiss all contenders as if you owned the universe. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
How can my rejection trump God? Perhaps "She" has tried numerous times and yet you reject any hint of authenticity due to lack of evidence. If I refuse to believe in rabbits, does that stop one from hopping across my lawn? Why is the God you imagine so much weaker than a rabbit?
Phat writes:
No. It's your God's refusal to provide evidence that dooms me to not see it.
Your insistence on physical evidence may ultimately doom you to an eternity of waiting. Phat writes:
That's a silly thing to say. We're trying the suspects that we already have. I don't need to provide my own private suspect. The least you could do is take the initiative to create a candidate of your own rather than seek to dismiss all contenders as if you owned the universe.An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
You must live in Regina. I googled it. Nice inner church....plain on the outside...fancy on the inside
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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