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Author Topic:   Will The Real God Please Stand Up?
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2629 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 17 of 364 (379015)
01-22-2007 5:15 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by anastasia
01-22-2007 5:00 PM


poor jesus . . .poor, poor jesus.
ROFLMAO!!
that was great.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by anastasia, posted 01-22-2007 5:00 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
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kuresu
Member (Idle past 2629 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 29 of 364 (379110)
01-22-2007 11:14 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Archer Opteryx
01-22-2007 11:10 PM


Re: Why Loki?
not to mention Valhalla. Looks like that's where I'm going (even though I'm not a warrior).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Archer Opteryx, posted 01-22-2007 11:10 PM Archer Opteryx has not replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2629 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 34 of 364 (379209)
01-23-2007 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Archer Opteryx
01-23-2007 6:42 AM


Re: speaking of Asia
gonna take a guess.
yojimbo?
(basis: Final Fantasy X game, a summon called Yojimbo, looks like a samurai, requests money for his services. and your comment: send money. damn mercenary.)
probably wrong.
(oh, and while it is quite a bit late for the class, did you ever read my essay?)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Archer Opteryx, posted 01-23-2007 6:42 AM Archer Opteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Archer Opteryx, posted 01-23-2007 12:26 PM kuresu has replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2629 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 39 of 364 (379320)
01-23-2007 7:34 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Archer Opteryx
01-23-2007 12:26 PM


Re: speaking of Asia
hmm. interesting. pretty positive that I sent it to your e-mail. since it's not listed on your profile, i won't put i out here. my e-mail, holydragon281, does record that i sent the message. and i never got a failed to send message from mailerdaemon, so . . .
thanks for the info on that dude. sounds, well, machiavellian.
(okay, so it's listed in your profile, just not on the quick view version. i sent it to taoshan@gmail.com. your current seems to be taoshan.tw@gmail.com. that could have been the problem. I sent it on Dec 10 or 11.
Edited by kuresu, : minor corrections

This message is a reply to:
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kuresu
Member (Idle past 2629 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 40 of 364 (379325)
01-23-2007 7:41 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Doddy
01-23-2007 6:05 PM


Re: for the record
out of curiosity:
if on proving their qualifications, it becomes necessary to cite historical examples of their actions, how would they prove it?
reason being, geology and history can only tell us what happened, not who caused it when speaking of deities.
I move that works of history can be allowed, but that we should first determine the qualifications needed for said works to be accepted.

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This message is a reply to:
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kuresu
Member (Idle past 2629 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 48 of 364 (379393)
01-23-2007 11:47 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Rob
01-23-2007 11:40 PM


Re: Can I tell the truth, Jesus?
your point?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Rob, posted 01-23-2007 11:40 PM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Rob, posted 01-23-2007 11:48 PM kuresu has replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2629 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 52 of 364 (379399)
01-23-2007 11:58 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Rob
01-23-2007 11:48 PM


Re: Can I tell the truth, Jesus?
ay, like your denial that sin is a separate concept from "right and wrong" and your defiance of your own rules--you claimed you were leaving. you left. and you came back.
i smell hypocrisy. i taste hypocrisy. i see hypocrisy. i hear hypocrisy.
hypocrite.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Rob, posted 01-23-2007 11:48 PM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Rob, posted 01-24-2007 12:32 AM kuresu has replied
 Message 59 by anastasia, posted 01-24-2007 12:47 AM kuresu has not replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2629 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 54 of 364 (379409)
01-24-2007 12:31 AM


you know, you have to wonder about people who are so convinced that they are "nothing" and "worthless" and "filthy rags".
why do people have such low opinions of themselves and others?
(and what's truly ironic (though I don't think I'm using the literary term correctly) is that these people who abhor against being called "animals" by the logic of evolution are convinced that we are nothing more. what was it hobbes said? "the life of man is poor, solitary, masty, brutish, and short". hmm, and they have problems with a science that relegates them to the status of a mere animal.)

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kuresu
Member (Idle past 2629 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 72 of 364 (379522)
01-24-2007 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Rob
01-24-2007 12:32 AM


Re: Can I tell the truth, Jesus?
my motives?
what are they? do you know? how can you be certain they are impure?
is it because I reject christ, and make that plain as day that my motives are (or have to be) impure?
my motives are no more impure than your own. I seek to understand and ask questions. that is my motive.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Rob, posted 01-24-2007 12:32 AM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Rob, posted 01-25-2007 9:46 AM kuresu has replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2629 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 73 of 364 (379525)
01-24-2007 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Omnivorous
01-24-2007 10:28 AM


just so there's no confusion, Kris Kristofferson is not my son.
(it was tradition in scandinavia to make your surname your father's first name, plus son. hence, Leif Erikson,(spelling wrong), son of Eric the Red (dude who got to Greenland, land of ice).
following the tradition, I would have been Christopher Johnson. granted, the tradition hasn't been followed for quite some time to my understanding (or else, all my uncles in sweden would be Erikson).
just so there's no confusion.
I move that this be struck from the record--it has no bearing whatsoever on the meeting.
quick question: what does QED and OED stand for?

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Omnivorous, posted 01-24-2007 10:28 AM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by Omnivorous, posted 01-24-2007 2:53 PM kuresu has replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2629 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 75 of 364 (379554)
01-24-2007 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by Omnivorous
01-24-2007 2:53 PM


that's hilarious. thanks for the info.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Omnivorous, posted 01-24-2007 2:53 PM Omnivorous has replied

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kuresu
Member (Idle past 2629 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 84 of 364 (379726)
01-25-2007 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by Rob
01-25-2007 9:46 AM


Re: Can I tell the truth, Jesus?
After he revealed Himself and proved Himself to me, I then, and only then, closed the door.
and now the problem is clear. you think you've found the answer, and so, you look nowhere else, you turn nowhere else, and you listen to no one else.
I don't claim to know your specific motives. What I do know is that you are human, like me. that means, that neither of our motives can be more impure than the other. I never claimed that your motives were impure. In fact, you probably think they are pure--you're converting for christ! notice I say probably--because I do not know, I can only speculate. you went far beyond speculation.
Questions are good. As long as they are genuine questions
how can they be good when you've closed the door to any future learning? oops.
But you can only think like a man
which is no better, or worse, than you can do. YOu do not have the voice of God. Just because you know about him does not mean you can think on his terms. I know about John Paul II. He proved his existence to me. Can I think like him? Not a chance. At least, not in the manner you mean. You actually believe you can think like God, because you know of him and about him. tough luck--you can't. He ain't you--which you admitted. you are a man, nothing more, nothing less.
Its nothing to be ashamed about. we are all men (except the women, of course, they're just wierd )
All of us have sinned, and hidden from God like the first Son of God, Adam. It is not something we must be ashamed of in the sense of hiding. Hiding is the only thing that will condemn us.
why am I ashamed of sin, when its a concept I don't believe in? It's not a ploy of mine to get rid of responsibility, its an idea that has zero bearing on my life. I don't believe in the genesis story. I don't believe in God. So then, how can I be hiding from something I don't believe in? tell me rob, do you hide from the monster in the closet? of course not--there isn't a monster there.
let's make this clear--if there's a god out there, I am not hiding from you (all).
Like a judge finding you guilty, but writing the check for your fine Himself. Quite a noble sacrifice on His part. A kind gesture... Forgiving ignorance and educationg at the same time. Now we can no longer claim ignorance. If we refuse Him, it is because of our impure motives.
God forgives those who aks for penance. Why then, does he need his son to die? Why do I need someone to pay my fine for me? I am not that weak. I also notice you use the word "kind". As in, well, that was . . .nice. . .shouldn't you be jumping up and down for joy because you're so weak you needed someone to pay your fine? So much for having a high opinion of the guy. And if he forgives us of ignorance, we lose it? That's what you claim--that we can no longer rely on ignorance to get us out because we know something-his sacrifice, i guess.
now, how does refusing him translate to having impure motives? I don't reject him because I don't like him. I don't need him. or rather, his sacrifice. How am I to learn something if I'm forgiven at every turn? Oops, I lied. well, god forgives. oops, I killed. well, god forgives. oops, I stole. well, god forgives.
no wonder christianity can seem so depraved--you all don't learn from your mistakes, because you don't have to pay the consequences because of the death of your prophet 2,000 years ago!
why won't Hovind learn he's made a mistake? my guess--he's thinking god will forgive him.
tell me, what happened when you stole a cookie from the cookie jar as a child? you got scolded, no? what if you hadn't? what if everytime, your mother/father just said "well, boys will be boys"?
that's what Christ is doing for you! He's the mother/father saying "boys will be boys". And you expect me to follow your religion because of this sacrifice that gets me off the hook? Sorry, I've got a higher moral ground than that.
Tell me. Why do you keep your ears and eyes closed when you say genuine questions are good?
Do you expect me to give up the higher moral ground because of some sacrifice that lets me off the hook?
a broken one I admit
then why hasn't god fired you? since you seem to have such a crappy job performance in his service, and in fact might be hurting his prophet, why hasn't he fired you?
And something else became clear--
Forgiving ignorance and educationg
Jesus forgave you for your education? that's rich.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Rob, posted 01-25-2007 9:46 AM Rob has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by anastasia, posted 01-25-2007 12:32 PM kuresu has replied
 Message 87 by Phat, posted 01-25-2007 1:01 PM kuresu has replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2629 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 88 of 364 (379795)
01-25-2007 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by anastasia
01-25-2007 12:32 PM


Re: Can I tell the truth, Jesus?
realize this: Rob is arguing that only in Christ do we find salvation. If turn turn from him, that means we're ignorant.
I find his version of christianity stupid.
there are many good christians--jar, you, phat, percy, mr. austin . . .
I do feel remorse. Trust me. I don't even like skipping class (unless its one that I absolutely hate and only need a C in, but even then . . .). But don't confuse guilt with sin. Without religion, you don't have sin. I don't have religion. I don't have sin.
If I implied that I thought that only christians got off the hook and everyone else is doomed to hell, I implied wrongly. That means that I'd be going to hell! (granted, I don't believe in such a place, so . . .)
I think the rest of your post might be better in my new thread on why we do the "right" thing. as a quick answer--i believe in learning from your mistakes. I don't believe you should get off the hook with a "free pass". Quite frankly though, that's what many seem to use Christ for, and it seems that some teach that that is what Christ is.
looking forward to your reply in my thread.
If I'm parroting others, I honestly don't know who. My guess is you think I have ideas similar with the three you listed below. I've only heard of mother teresa and what she's done. I've never read any of their stuff. Doesn't mean I've not been influenced by them. Just because I haven't read the Bible doesn't mean it's influenced me.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by anastasia, posted 01-25-2007 12:32 PM anastasia has replied

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kuresu
Member (Idle past 2629 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 89 of 364 (379798)
01-25-2007 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by Phat
01-25-2007 1:01 PM


Re: Can I tell the truth, Jesus?
I'm actually going to move for a temporary adjournment of the meeting--the time we come back shall be decided after this movement passes. My reason? Arguments other than those in support/against the candidates have taken over the thread.
I apologize for this.
I'll chat with you about the rest

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by Phat, posted 01-25-2007 1:01 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
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kuresu
Member (Idle past 2629 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 182 of 364 (381084)
01-29-2007 6:50 PM


I ma doG!
Since we haven't managed to decide just what being a God requires, I shall give you my resume for the job.
I am alive. And I'm here right now. Oh, and I don't claim to be everyone's god. just the one for my followers--all trillion plus cells of my body. Isn't it great how they'll work for me, die for me, care for me?
Edited by kuresu, : my recent grammer screw up should not be counted against my application--esp. since we have no standard qualifications to begin with.
oh, added "it" in the last sentence

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