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Author Topic:   Will The Real God Please Stand Up?
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1560 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 255 of 364 (829303)
03-05-2018 7:56 PM
Reply to: Message 254 by dwise1
03-05-2018 7:39 PM


Re: Just So
This idea that we make up God is obviously just a fiction atheists like to believe, it has nothing to do with the reality of how believers come to belief or live our beliefs. I didn't believe in God for most of my life, for the thirty or so years between age fifteen and age forty-five. I'd gone to church as a child and believed in a general way but without any real conviction or knowledge so I easily lost it when confronted with my supposedly more enlightened sophisticated friends in the big city high school I started attending at fifteen.
When I came to believe in my forties, entirely through reading books about religion, it was with the overwhelming sense of a Reality I couldn't possibly have imagined existing before. This sense of an objective real God came from reading dozens of books by believers. They didn't make Him up, I didn't make Him up. I'd spent thirty years assuming such a God didn't and couldn't exist because I had no idea why the people who believed believed. I couldn't dream up any reasons for Him to exist before I simply KNEW He exists. I wasn't looking for Him, but just as Christian theology says, it is very clear to me that He found me and not the other way around. He showed me that He is real, He did it all.
God is always described by believers as objective reality so it takes a lot of denial of simple human experience to accuse believers of making Him up.
Of course you'll just assume I made it all up in my own mind anyway no matter what I tell you about my own experience.
So I just wanted to butt in to say that much and you can and will just carry on with your own false beliefs.
Cheers.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 254 by dwise1, posted 03-05-2018 7:39 PM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 256 by dwise1, posted 03-05-2018 9:41 PM Faith has replied
 Message 257 by NoNukes, posted 03-06-2018 5:46 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1560 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 258 of 364 (829323)
03-06-2018 5:59 AM
Reply to: Message 257 by NoNukes
03-06-2018 5:46 AM


Re: Just So
I believe the evidence supports all that, yes. But that's an entirely different order of things than belief in God.

This message is a reply to:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1560 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 259 of 364 (829324)
03-06-2018 6:05 AM
Reply to: Message 256 by dwise1
03-05-2018 9:41 PM


Re: Just So
Every form of knowledge involves fallible humans, so I guess we shouldn't believe anyone about anything, just hole up in a cave. Certainly you should because you believe in the fallible human work of science.
I never used the word "perfectly" but I found believers all agreeing on the basics based on the Bible which we all accept as God's own personal communication to us.
I've presented the proofs of the young earth many times and now I've presented yet another on the Evolution - we have the Fossils thread.
.

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 Message 260 by jar, posted 03-06-2018 7:00 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1560 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 261 of 364 (829332)
03-06-2018 7:09 AM
Reply to: Message 260 by jar
03-06-2018 7:00 AM


Re: Just So
What I mean is that believers in orthodox traditional historical Christianity that goes back to the apostles and is best formulated in the Reformers of the sixteenth century and carried through all the orthodox churches today, agree on the basics of the orthodox traditional historical Christian faith. I also read a lot of heretical writings on my journey to Christianity and learned to reject them as I learned to recognize the truth. For instance, I read Athanasius whose love for truth shines in his work, who trounced the heresies of his day.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by jar, posted 03-06-2018 7:00 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 262 by jar, posted 03-06-2018 7:21 AM Faith has replied
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1560 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 263 of 364 (829336)
03-06-2018 7:23 AM
Reply to: Message 262 by jar
03-06-2018 7:21 AM


Re: Just So
Just as I said to dwise it's remarkable how you can accuse me of being caught in a loop of unverifiable suppositions and forget that it must mean that you are too, and with that the possibility of any knowledge at all goes down the drain and I certainly don't have to take anything you say seriously.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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 Message 262 by jar, posted 03-06-2018 7:21 AM jar has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1560 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 288 of 364 (836127)
07-10-2018 7:17 PM
Reply to: Message 287 by Tangle
07-10-2018 5:00 PM


Re: Why Is The Real One The Christian One?
Can you please answer the question of why you have to live/be born in a Christian country/to Christian parents to be able to 'know' the 'One'?
Why do you keep saying that? There are something like 33 million to 67 million Christians in China according to diferent estimates, and it's growing all the time, even though the government keeps coming up with ways to persecute them. South KIorea is reputed to have the biggest Christian church in existence, a million I think. As far as I know they are not persecuted, but North Koreans are who dare to convert. There is an Asian tribe that totally converted to Christianity many years ago and all live as Christians, can't remember their name. There are lots of Christians in India too, and the Hindus have recently stepped up their persecutions there, beatings, rapes. Muslims also convert to Chrsitianity and suffrer tremendous persecution as a result. I don't know the numbers in those cases. Sudan has lots of Christians, many of them fled to the US under Muslim persecution some decades ago.
And certainly there are plenty of converts to other religions in the Christian west, mostly to the eastern religions Buddhism and Hinduism, but also some to Islam.
Christianity originally spread in Europe and then to the US, a fact of history. It had also spread through the Middle East but Islam forced most to convert. But the Great Commission Jesus gave us to take the gospel into all the world has been seriously underway for centuries.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 287 by Tangle, posted 07-10-2018 5:00 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 290 by Tangle, posted 07-11-2018 7:05 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1560 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 291 of 364 (836148)
07-11-2018 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 290 by Tangle
07-11-2018 7:05 AM


Re: Why Is The Real One The Christian One?
Rev 7:9
After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

This message is a reply to:
 Message 290 by Tangle, posted 07-11-2018 7:05 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1560 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 293 of 364 (836151)
07-11-2018 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 287 by Tangle
07-10-2018 5:00 PM


Re: Why Is The Real One The Christian One?
Why is the Real One the Christian One?
Well, it isn't like any of the others. It's based on historical accounts written by many authors over about fifteen hundred years that go back to the Creation of the universe.
Its accounts include direct dealings with God, explain the nature of God, show human beings both trying and failing to obey Him, explains why we're in the mess we're in and how God has planned a solution to the mess from the very beginning.
It contains accounts of miracles and prophecies straight from the mouth of God Himself.
It offers us a Savior from the punishment we deserve for our transgressions against God's commandments, a Savior who is God Himself incarnate in human flesh, who because He shares in our human nature is able to die in our place to pay for our sins. He also taught while He was on this Earth a philosophy of life that is regarded as nothing short of sublime even by many unbelievers.
No other religion has anything even remotely like this.
Does all that make it true? Not based on anything I could say, but I do believe that its authenticity is palpable to an honest reader.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 287 by Tangle, posted 07-10-2018 5:00 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1560 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 295 of 364 (836157)
07-11-2018 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 294 by Tangle
07-11-2018 2:44 PM


Re: Why Is The Real One The Christian One?
No other religion is even remotely like biblical Christianity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by Tangle, posted 07-11-2018 2:44 PM Tangle has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1560 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 298 of 364 (836172)
07-11-2018 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 297 by Tangle
07-11-2018 3:44 PM


Re: Why Is The Real One The Christian One?
Judaism and Islam are very like Christianity. So is Mormonism.
Judaism is, but only because they have the same Old Testament Bible, otherwise what they believe is not the same at all. Islam, no, nothing at all like Christianity, or Mormonism either.
But lots of religions are also very different to Christianity. So what? What you believe is overwhelmingly likely to be what your parents believe.
My parents didn't believe much of anything that I knew of. They sent their children to church because they thought it was a good thing but they just about never went themselves and neither of them ever uttered a word that showed they believed anything like I've come to believe. When I first believed in the reality of God -- in my mid forties after about thirty years of considering myself an atheist -- I thought I was going to be a Hindu or a Buddhist. It took a lot of reading, and a lot of overcoming my own prejudices against Christianity to finally embrace it.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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 Message 297 by Tangle, posted 07-11-2018 3:44 PM Tangle has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1560 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 300 of 364 (836193)
07-12-2018 12:43 AM
Reply to: Message 299 by Tangle
07-11-2018 5:09 PM


Re: Why Is The Real One The Christian One?
Of course you can rewrite my autobiography to suit yourself, and your idea of "commonalities" between the religions is groundless. Christianity is unique in the ways I said it is.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 299 by Tangle, posted 07-11-2018 5:09 PM Tangle has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1560 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 306 of 364 (836208)
07-12-2018 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 301 by Tangle
07-12-2018 2:58 AM


Re: Why Is The Real One The Christian One?
I made a point of showing that my parents were not Christians, because they did not believe anything Christians are supposed to believe. They were raised more or less in a Christian society but if you judge by their beliefs they were simply heathens. THAT's the part of my autobiography you rewrote. Or A part.
GDR's beliefs go back no more than maybe 150 years to the "liberal" theologians. True Christianity goes back two millennia and though it was lost through the period when the Roman church dominated there were still always true believers and the Reformation recovered the truth that had been buried.
You said your experience of being raised Christian included the idea that all you have to do to be saved is just sort of "do your best" or something like that? That's at least a "liberal" point of view, an apostate church point of view. Anglicanism is well known for its deviation from the truth, so perhaps that was your church experience?
And Islam doesn't honor Jesus. Reducing God to a mere prophet is certainly not honoring Him.
As I spellect it out Christianity is fundame4ntally essentially different from all other religions, not just different gby a few "points
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 301 by Tangle, posted 07-12-2018 2:58 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 308 by ringo, posted 07-12-2018 12:31 PM Faith has replied
 Message 309 by Tangle, posted 07-12-2018 12:32 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1560 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 310 of 364 (836212)
07-12-2018 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 308 by ringo
07-12-2018 12:31 PM


Re: Why Is The Real One The Christian One?
Sorry, Christianity is not just what people who know zip about it think it is.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 308 by ringo, posted 07-12-2018 12:31 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 312 by ringo, posted 07-12-2018 12:44 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1560 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 311 of 364 (836213)
07-12-2018 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 309 by Tangle
07-12-2018 12:32 PM


Re: Why Is The Real One The Christian One?
Sorry, you have no idea what is involved in becoming a Christian and that's what I'm trying to talk about. Being born in a Christian culture dores not make anyone a Christian. Sorry. Learn something. Thre is reason to believe that perhaps the majority of people in "Christian" churches are not Christians. I know you are talking about Christian as opposed to other religions, but that misses the essential point involved in being a Christian so I'm not letting you get away with it. Converts to Chrsitanity in other cultures are very likely to be truer Christians than anyone born in a "Christian" culture who even goes to church. And anyway the idea that there is much of anything left of Christianity in the cultures of the west is false anyway.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 309 by Tangle, posted 07-12-2018 12:32 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 314 by Tangle, posted 07-12-2018 12:47 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1560 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 313 of 364 (836216)
07-12-2018 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 312 by ringo
07-12-2018 12:44 PM


Re: Why Is The Real One The Christian One?
What you think doesn't matter to me but it does bother me that your nonsense could mislead others.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 312 by ringo, posted 07-12-2018 12:44 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
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