Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 51 (9179 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: Jorge Parker
Post Volume: Total: 918,196 Year: 5,453/9,624 Month: 478/323 Week: 118/204 Day: 18/16 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Will The Real God Please Stand Up?
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5960 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


(1)
Message 43 of 364 (379381)
01-23-2007 10:57 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by ringo
01-22-2007 1:26 PM


Re: Can I tell the truth, Jesus?
He thumps a Bible on the table.
"It's customary to ask for two pieces of ID." I add, "Photo ID."
You need two witnesses? Good golly miss Molly...
Jesus thumps down the Bible...
John 5:31,46,47
31 "If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid. 32 There is another who testifies in my favor, and I know that his testimony about me is valid.
46 If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. 47 But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?"
I think His appearing is better than photo ID... has anyone in history ever seen Sophia, or the flying spagetti monster?
Revelation 15:3 ...and sang the song of Moses the servant of God and the song of the Lamb: "Great and marvelous are your deeds, Lord God Almighty. Just and true are your ways, King of the ages.
Law and grace... The Old and New Testaments... There is His ID.
There is more about the two witnesses but I'll leave it out...
Edited by Rob, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by ringo, posted 01-22-2007 1:26 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by ringo, posted 01-23-2007 11:19 PM Rob has replied

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5960 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 45 of 364 (379388)
01-23-2007 11:34 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by ringo
01-23-2007 11:19 PM


Re: Can I tell the truth, Jesus?
Verifiable ID.
Well, if you live to see the dead raised at the rapture as prophesied by Ezekiel, will that be enough of an earthquake to shake your foundation?
I am probably about to be suspended by his queens loyal servant, so just think it over...
Edited by Rob, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by ringo, posted 01-23-2007 11:19 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by ringo, posted 01-23-2007 11:38 PM Rob has replied

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5960 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 47 of 364 (379391)
01-23-2007 11:40 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by ringo
01-23-2007 11:38 PM


Re: Can I tell the truth, Jesus?
The evidence has to be presented here, in the courtroom.
You don't recognize the evidence... Jesus said that He came to save sinners. That's the stumbling block. That's why your blind!
Evidence?
'The most emperically verifiable reality is the depravity of man. Yet at the same time it is the most intellectually resisted fact!'
(Malcomb Muggeridge)
Edited by Rob, : No reason given.
Edited by Rob, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by ringo, posted 01-23-2007 11:38 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by kuresu, posted 01-23-2007 11:47 PM Rob has replied
 Message 49 by ringo, posted 01-23-2007 11:48 PM Rob has replied
 Message 109 by Phat, posted 01-26-2007 4:27 AM Rob has not replied

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5960 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 50 of 364 (379395)
01-23-2007 11:48 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by kuresu
01-23-2007 11:47 PM


Re: Can I tell the truth, Jesus?
your point?
Denial is powerful... and defiance is absolute...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by kuresu, posted 01-23-2007 11:47 PM kuresu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by kuresu, posted 01-23-2007 11:58 PM Rob has replied

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5960 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 53 of 364 (379408)
01-24-2007 12:24 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by ringo
01-23-2007 11:48 PM


Re: Can I tell the truth, Jesus?
Justice is supposed to be blind
I can't believe I have to say it... I wasn't talking about justice. But you're right, Justice is frighteningly blind! No mercy for those who refuse it.
I was talking about being blind to the fact that you are a sinner.
Under God, all men are equal and all men are as filthy rags.
Only over Satan, are all men unequally righteous.
Would you please just think about that...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by ringo, posted 01-23-2007 11:48 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by ringo, posted 01-24-2007 12:32 AM Rob has replied

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5960 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 55 of 364 (379410)
01-24-2007 12:32 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by kuresu
01-23-2007 11:58 PM


Re: Can I tell the truth, Jesus?
ay, like your denial that sin is a separate concept from "right and wrong" and your defiance of your own rules--you claimed you were leaving. you left. and you came back.
There is no difference between sin, and right and wrong. And the fact that you are so wrong is sinful. Your motivations are impure...
Nietzche got his philosophy wrong (a logical mistake). And it led to the Gas chambers. Just ask Victor Frankl who experienced the gas chambers first hand.
'The gas chambers of Auschwitz Cherblinka, and Mydanek, were the ultimate consequence of the theory that man is nothing more than a product of heredity and environment. We should not look to some ministry or other of defense in Berlin, but to the desks and lecture halls of nihilistic philosophers and scientists.' (paraphraseed)
But it wasn't a mistake... it was an attempt to side-step the moral realm. His motives were impure...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by kuresu, posted 01-23-2007 11:58 PM kuresu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by kuresu, posted 01-24-2007 2:07 PM Rob has replied

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5960 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 57 of 364 (379413)
01-24-2007 12:40 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by ringo
01-24-2007 12:32 AM


Re: Can I tell the truth, Jesus?
Or does He need a better advocate than you?
He only needs an audience who actually wants the truth. Not one that continually crucifies Him, and finds Him an offense.
I say to all of you the words given to me as my own... 'The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that what it does is evil.' John 7:7

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by ringo, posted 01-24-2007 12:32 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by ringo, posted 01-24-2007 12:43 AM Rob has not replied

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5960 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


(1)
Message 79 of 364 (379708)
01-25-2007 9:46 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by kuresu
01-24-2007 2:07 PM


Re: Can I tell the truth, Jesus?
Kuresu:
my motives?
what are they? do you know? how can you be certain they are impure?
is it because I reject christ, and make that plain as day that my motives are (or have to be) impure?
Precisely!
Kuresu:
my motives are no more impure than your own.
I see... I don't know, but you do?
Kuresu:
I seek to understand and ask questions. that is my motive.
Questions are good. As long as they are genuine questions. You are just like I was... Defensive and proud! Not about to be manipulated. It is always better to debate an issue before settling it. I have made up my mind, because I did not first settle the issue. I was open to God. After he revealed Himself and proved Himself to me, I then, and only then, closed the door.
How can I know your motives???
It is no mystery Kuresu... I am a man, just like you.
But you can only think like a man. And that is why you assume that I can only think like a man as well. You're projecting... I [b]do[/qs] know about men. But I also know about God. Not because I had the mind of God. but because he gave it to me by His Spirit when I kept my mid open to Him.
Is that possible?
Consider what Paul had to say...
1 Corinthians 2:11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
It's like C.S. Lewis said... 'We are men, so we have inside information (about how men think)'.
Napoleon said, "I know men. And Jesus Christ was no mere man.'
Not that Napoleon is a great role model... but he understood men, and that is why he was able to lead them and defeat them. Who knows if he found the Lord in the end... Even he can be forgiven. All he had to do is finally admit his crimes to God with genuine Honesty.
You can humiliate and defeat me because I am still just a man. But you cannot defeat my message because it is the power of God. that is why you want me to offer my thoughts, without quotes included or other witnesses. That makes no sense... who comes to court without witnesses?
Jesus spoke about this very thing:
John 5:31 "If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid. 32 There is another who testifies in my favor, and I know that his testimony about me is valid. 33 "You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth. 34 Not that I accept human testimony; but I mention it that you may be saved. 35 John was a lamp that burned and gave light, and you chose for a time to enjoy his light. 36 "I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and which I am doing, testifies that the Father has sent me. 37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38 nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. 39 You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life. 41 "I do not accept praise from men, 42 but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts. 43 I have come in my Father's name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him.
It's ok Kuresu... All of us have sinned, and hidden from God like the first Son of God, Adam. It is not something we must be ashamed of in the sense of hiding. Hiding is the only thing that will condemn us. In a sense, it is not even our fault. Adam brought in on us all. We were raised in an evil world. How could we be anything other than evil? That is the natural man in all of us; a slave to his sin.
That is why Jesus died for us... In our place. To satisfy judgement, and provide mercy. Like a judge finding you guilty, but writing the check for your fine Himself. Quite a noble sacrifice on His part. A kind gesture... Forgiving ignorance and educationg at the same time. Now we can no longer claim ignorance. If we refuse Him, it is because of our impure motives.
Romans 5:19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
We have the judgement of God hanging over us. Will we accept His sacrifice or insist on paying the price ourselves?
We needed someone to deliver us, and God provided His Son. A second Son of God who overcomes the natural lusts. We cannot do it ourselves. We could never repair what has been undone. Not as individuals or as a community. The world is coming undone. Who will stop it?
I know a lot of the stuff I say sounds rediculous. Here is what Paul said to other Christians about it...
Corinthians 2:6 We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"-- 10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
And He will reveal it to you as well Kuresu, if you ask the questions of Him with a genuine interest in the answers.
I can't prove it to you. Only He can.
Then it will not be a matter of believing me...
I don't blame you for not believing just stupid me. That is just wise on your part. But your anger and cynicism is not healthy. You must find the strength to trust, and become a real man. A real man who is not to proud to be honest deep inside where it hurts.
If you will bear the pain of that cross for a moment, and concede to Him. He will open your eyes and begin to answer your questions. Slowly at first. It's real Kuresu... not some phony faith... And you learn it like learning anything real. By considering that the teacher may know something you don't. By keeping your mind and heart open to Him.
In todays world we are told to have an open mind to everything, and shut our minds to any exclusive claims to truth. What contradictions and lies! What an exclusive claim in itself! A doctrine of devils...
I am not God. But I am in Him. I am just a light. A mirror (though a broken one I admit). A staff in His hand. A servant. A poor and lowly disciple of Christ. A despised lamp among men. A threatening turncoat. One who has abandoned humanity for God. I am salt, that spices up the muddyness of the lost. I am only trying to get your attention to point you to the one who you can trust... Ask Him...
Now that I have your attention, will you consider believing that? You don't have to answer me... You only have to acknowledge it in yourself. God sees our heart...
Go find Him for yourself, so that you will understand and test all these words on your own.
It's not about blind faith... it's about 'understanding' and 'seeing'. Anything less is not genuine!
Edited by Rob, : No reason given.
Edited by Rob, : No reason given.

Matthew 10:26 "So do not be afraid of them. There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by kuresu, posted 01-24-2007 2:07 PM kuresu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Kader, posted 01-25-2007 10:35 AM Rob has replied
 Message 84 by kuresu, posted 01-25-2007 11:15 AM Rob has not replied
 Message 86 by Phat, posted 01-25-2007 12:47 PM Rob has not replied

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5960 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


(1)
Message 81 of 364 (379721)
01-25-2007 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by Kader
01-25-2007 10:35 AM


Re: Can I tell the truth, Jesus?
Kader's statement of faith:
So using your faith as a truth is an extrem position held by the most violent and destructive people I've known/heard of. Like terrorist for example or people that would burn churches/synagogues/mosque etc.
Horrible act of violence have been commited by people who took there faith so seriously it became an obesession, it became TRUTH. Your faith isn't truth Rob.
Kader:
Now a healthy faith is one that doesn't acknowledge itself to be the truth.
Really now?... do you consider your statements of faith (your quote above) to be true?
That is why the fairness doctrine and other laws against Christianity are coming...
Because the proponents of such believe their own contradictory lies. And they are willing to silence Christians and oppose churches, Not with physical violence I concede, but with spiritual violence and domination of ideas.
Can plurlaism and relativism dominate the landscape... without becoming the 'exclusive truth' in and of themselves?
'The West is on the verge of collapse, because it has lost it's power to reason.'

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Kader, posted 01-25-2007 10:35 AM Kader has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Kader, posted 01-25-2007 2:03 PM Rob has replied

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5960 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 98 of 364 (379964)
01-25-2007 10:46 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Kader
01-25-2007 2:03 PM


Re: Can I tell the truth, Jesus?
where you witht the ones screaming the end of the world is coming back then roughly 7 years ago?
No... but I do agree with the ones who have said we are living in the last days for the last 1900+ years.
Because they believed it pretty hard. And guess what, the world didn't end.
But it will... 2nd law of thermodynamics (a Scientific fact). Jesus said no man knows the hour... I believe Him (and good science).
Your faith is not the truth.
Are you stating that as an absolute truth?
It might be to you, but if your a sensible man, you must accept that you might be wrong.
And vice versa...
To stay on topic, all im saying is you cannot deny other the right to have faith in something else.
What about that truth is absolute? Will you deny them that? And will you deny them the right to say it?
Because faith isn't BACKED UP by any hard scientific evidence. It is something we believe to be true, but it is something that can BE WRONG
Ah... So science is the truth. Science is all about testing and experiment. And Christianity can be tested. If you ask for forgiveness with sincerity, Jesus promises to come to us and make His home, and open our eyes.
He does. I only know because He did for me after I took the little leap of faith.
And when He does, no one can tell you it is just faith. Because at that point it is experience (root word 'experimental').

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Kader, posted 01-25-2007 2:03 PM Kader has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by iceage, posted 01-26-2007 12:10 AM Rob has replied

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5960 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 99 of 364 (379965)
01-25-2007 10:48 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by ringo
01-25-2007 2:48 PM


Re: I am late but I am here if you chose to have faith
Well at least you're an equal opportunity doubter... I'll give you that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by ringo, posted 01-25-2007 2:48 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5960 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 102 of 364 (379981)
01-26-2007 12:24 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by iceage
01-26-2007 12:10 AM


Re: Can I tell the truth, Jesus?
The ole little leap of faith eh? And if you lived in a Muslim dominated society you would have leaped into Islam.
Now that is just insulting and patently strawmanish.
Human beings are capable and 'bent' toward rebellion. In it's proper place, rebellion is healthy. Rebellion for rebellions sake is simple cynicism and leaves nothing to rebel against other than rebellion itself.
I rebelled against the faith of my parents. And they gave me the freedom to do that. A freedom they knew God gave them. If there is no God, there is no freedom for we can only do what we are programmed to do. God is the option out! Without Him, I'm afraid your stuck with yourself. And speaking for myself, that sucks! But maybe your one of those who likes... (if you'll pardon the expression) sucking on himself?
I didn't become a Christian to win a poularity contest or jump on the concensus bandwagon of modern conventional wisdom and science.
Your projecting your own weakness!
Believing anything takes a leap o faith. But if you take the leap towards Christianity, yu'll have to give up some things... like friends, family, and acceptance in a culture that will mock you and in some cases hate you.
You better stay where you are. Your not strong enough. Now Loki has a hip cult following... there's your salvation!
Edited by Rob, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by iceage, posted 01-26-2007 12:10 AM iceage has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by anastasia, posted 01-26-2007 12:41 AM Rob has replied
 Message 106 by iceage, posted 01-26-2007 1:46 AM Rob has replied

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5960 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 112 of 364 (380066)
01-26-2007 9:22 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by anastasia
01-26-2007 12:41 AM


Re: Can I tell the truth, Jesus?
So you have rebelled against christianity?
I did for a time. I rebelled against religion. I wanted something real. Trurned out my folks were closer than I thought.
I was raised Catholic by my step father. My grandfathers on my mothers side were both protestant preachers. So you might say it is in the blood.
My mother became a Catholic as well. She had always been a religious Christian. Even as a Nazarene like her father.
She now attends a Baptist church and we have a wonderful relationship.
My step father doesn't understand anything that I say. He told me, ' I don't know Robert, I listen to the pope. Any public talk of Christ only embarasses him.
It's very sad.
My point was that any healthy person questions truth claims and assumptions. And especially their own. And non believers think this only applies to the 'religious'. They do not realize that they are religious as well, because every philosophy is a religion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by anastasia, posted 01-26-2007 12:41 AM anastasia has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by Phat, posted 01-26-2007 10:34 AM Rob has not replied

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5960 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 113 of 364 (380067)
01-26-2007 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by iceage
01-26-2007 1:46 AM


Re: Can I tell the truth, Jesus?
Apostasy is rare.
Is that why you follow the disbelief and cynicism of your parents?
That is why rebellion is so important. And a Christian, is the biggest rebel. Christ being the leader of the rebellion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by iceage, posted 01-26-2007 1:46 AM iceage has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by iceage, posted 01-26-2007 9:37 AM Rob has replied

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5960 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 115 of 364 (380074)
01-26-2007 9:54 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by iceage
01-26-2007 9:37 AM


Re: Can I tell the truth, Jesus?
Maybe, but you are the poorest excuse of a Christian I have had the displeasure to meet.
Thank you! You don't know how much that means to me. We're making progress...
If the world loved me, then I would not be a Christian. Or at least I would be one in need of some repentance and rebuke.
The world hates Christians even more that Christ. A servant is despised more than the master.
Edited by Rob, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by iceage, posted 01-26-2007 9:37 AM iceage has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by iceage, posted 01-26-2007 10:09 AM Rob has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024