Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 59 (9164 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,923 Year: 4,180/9,624 Month: 1,051/974 Week: 10/368 Day: 10/11 Hour: 1/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Hate the sin but love the person...except when voting?
Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 84 of 391 (596904)
12-17-2010 7:13 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by iano
12-17-2010 7:00 PM


iano writes:
The harm comes in exposing a child to that which is considered perverse.
What do you think will happen to people that sees same-sex couples getting married?
What is the harm that will occur?
iano writes:
Another is to prevent the normalisation of that which is considered perverse in the first place.
This does not describe what harm would be done.
How would normalisation of homosexuality harm people?
You say it is subjective, but can you not at least describe what you consider the harm to be?
Do you think people will see gay couples and think "Hey, I'll give that a go!"?
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
Edited by Panda, : typos

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by iano, posted 12-17-2010 7:00 PM iano has not replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 92 of 391 (596923)
12-18-2010 6:35 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by ringo
12-17-2010 8:48 PM


Re: No one can give a reason
ringo writes:
What I find bizarre is that the same acts are often not considered perverse when performed by people of opposite sexes.
None of it makes sense to me.
I knew a pub landlord who got very angry when two men in his pub were holding hands.
(Al Murray's phrase "I was never confused!" springs to the fore.)
But he would happily watch lesbian porn movies.
I am sure he would have only voted against male same-sex marriage.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by ringo, posted 12-17-2010 8:48 PM ringo has not replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 95 of 391 (596927)
12-18-2010 7:16 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by iano
12-18-2010 7:03 AM


Re: No one can give a reason
iano writes:
If I were to insert some behaviour which you did find perverse, in the place of homosexual behaviour, then you wouldn't be asking what harm it would do society.
I agree, I wouldn't be asking what harm it does to society - but I suspect that was not what you were trying to say.
I think that eating shit is perverse - but I don't see what harm it does society.
Just to clarify...
(e.g.) Paedophilia is perverse but not harmful to society: it is harmful to individuals.
(I won't describe the actual 'harm' as I hope that is obvious.)
The 'fear of paedophilia' (often spread by newspapers) is harmful to society - but it is not perverse.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by iano, posted 12-18-2010 7:03 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by iano, posted 12-18-2010 8:04 PM Panda has replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 108 of 391 (596988)
12-18-2010 8:58 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by iano
12-18-2010 8:04 PM


Re: No one can give a reason
iano writes:
Because:
a) there are sufficient numbers of folk who've lost sight of the topic and headed down the worldview vs. worldview dead end (incl. me)
b) because our only other intercourse managed to chart a tidy course until called, ironically, off-topic.
..I'll point you back to the topic at hand - you could do worse than begin at my first response at Message 5. Take note of the sample, off the top-of-my-head reason given for my opposition to gay marriage. It might help keep the focus on the actual topic, not on my justifcation for the reason I hold as I do.
Message 5 does not describe what harm is done to society.
You have spent far more time avoiding describing the harm caused by gay marriage than it would have taken to describe it.
I'll let everyone form their own opinion as to why that would be.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by iano, posted 12-18-2010 8:04 PM iano has not replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 135 of 391 (597043)
12-19-2010 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by iano
12-19-2010 6:49 AM


Re: No one can give a reason
iano writes:
1) The normalisation of homosexual behaviour is believed to bring about a negative outcome for society at large.
Again, you are making this claim.
When asked to support this statement, you started shouting "Off topic! Off topic!".
Your whole argument is built on this premise, but you cannot back it up with anything.
You cannot even identify the harm it does!
Same-sex marriage is legal is several countries - there must be plenty of evidence of this "negative outcome" - but you have nothing.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by iano, posted 12-19-2010 6:49 AM iano has not replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 137 of 391 (597045)
12-19-2010 8:49 AM
Reply to: Message 134 by frako
12-19-2010 7:10 AM


I would be careful of the equivocation.
'Normal' is not a correct antonym for 'Perverse' in this discussion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by frako, posted 12-19-2010 7:10 AM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by frako, posted 12-19-2010 8:53 AM Panda has replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 139 of 391 (597049)
12-19-2010 9:00 AM
Reply to: Message 138 by frako
12-19-2010 8:53 AM


'Normal' is a useless word to use, IMHO.
I completely agree that it could be considered normal to be perverse.
I guess that shows how inappropriate the word 'normal' is as an antonym to 'perverse'.
frako writes:
If no other being except a small amount of humans where gay then it would not be normal.
It could be considered normal for humans, but not normal for animals.
Edited by Panda, : missed a bit
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by frako, posted 12-19-2010 8:53 AM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by frako, posted 12-19-2010 9:06 AM Panda has seen this message but not replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 218 of 391 (597324)
12-20-2010 8:31 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by iano
12-20-2010 8:12 PM


Re: reasoning?????
iano writes:
God's order proscribes procreation within marriage. Going outside the marriage doesn't fall within that proscription - which is not to say that God doesn't bless sinners through his general providence.
Aahh...no children makes you a sinner. Got it.
I'll tell the Pope.
iano writes:
Consider who it is you're dealing with (for the purposes of the point believe he exists). Do you suppose to know what's best for all (over the long run) than the person who put it together.
Do you?
Or do you claim to know some passage from the bible regarding same-sex marriage?
iano writes:
Man can't get his act together long enough to avoid boom and bust every few years - what foresight. What control!
Thank goodness that we can't flood the world everytime we fuck up.
Your omniscient god: what foresight? What control?
iano writes:
Tell that to the secular couple - who see far more in marriage than mere legality.
Yes - far more than mere legaility - but no religion at all.
Love: yes. Commitment: yes. Religion: no.
What was your point?
iano writes:
If God then marriage is his gig and society messes with it at it's peril. It can't be helped.
Oh...I see.
God invented marriage therefore any marriage must be to god's rules.
I'll go tell the majority of the world that gets married but doesn't believe in your god. (Maybe some kind of group email?)
God didn't invent marriage and he has no impact on it's legal existence. It can't be helped.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by iano, posted 12-20-2010 8:12 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by iano, posted 12-21-2010 5:18 AM Panda has replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 240 of 391 (597366)
12-21-2010 6:17 AM
Reply to: Message 238 by iano
12-21-2010 5:18 AM


Re: reasoning?????
iano writes:
There's no material here to work with Panda. Sorry.
Considering the fact that whenever I have tried to get you to address the massive flaws in your arguement you have just cried like a baby - I did not expect very much.
Clearly you are homophobic but you have to shoe-horn that hatred into the christian religion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by iano, posted 12-21-2010 5:18 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 244 by iano, posted 12-21-2010 7:34 AM Panda has replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 253 of 391 (597381)
12-21-2010 8:09 AM
Reply to: Message 244 by iano
12-21-2010 7:34 AM


Re: reasoning?????
iano writes:
Rather than concentrate on the topic utilising the example given from the worldview I'm coming from, you demand I approach from your worldviews perspective ("what harm" = some empirically measureable harm).
I was concentrating on your claims.
If your claims are off-topic, then you should not be repeatedly making them in this thread.
And why would you falsely claim that I asked for empirically measureable harm?
Ah yes. Because you are still crying about being held to the statements you make.
You think that by adding criteria (that I did not ask for) you can continue to avoid backing up your claims.
iano writes:
It's time to shit .. or get off the pot Panda.
You seem to have started without the pot.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by iano, posted 12-21-2010 7:34 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 254 by iano, posted 12-21-2010 8:15 AM Panda has not replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3743 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 367 of 391 (597616)
12-22-2010 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 364 by crashfrog
12-22-2010 6:20 PM


crashfrog writes:
Yeah, I'm sure male bonobos are sucking each other's cocks just for practice.
Which makes me view ICD's comment in a whole different light...
IC writes:
Besides all that I have had special bonds that are unexplainable with other men that had nothing to do whatsoever with a sexual connection.
I am now unable to think of a 'special bond' that is 'unexplainable' that doesn't include touching.
Seriously - what would be an 'unexplainable special bond'?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 364 by crashfrog, posted 12-22-2010 6:20 PM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 369 by jar, posted 12-22-2010 6:31 PM Panda has seen this message but not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024