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Member (Idle past 2981 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Hate the sin but love the person...except when voting? | |||||||||||||||||||
Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
iano writes:
What do you think will happen to people that sees same-sex couples getting married? The harm comes in exposing a child to that which is considered perverse.What is the harm that will occur? iano writes:
This does not describe what harm would be done. Another is to prevent the normalisation of that which is considered perverse in the first place.How would normalisation of homosexuality harm people? You say it is subjective, but can you not at least describe what you consider the harm to be?Do you think people will see gay couples and think "Hey, I'll give that a go!"? Edited by Panda, : No reason given. Edited by Panda, : typos
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
ringo writes:
None of it makes sense to me. What I find bizarre is that the same acts are often not considered perverse when performed by people of opposite sexes. I knew a pub landlord who got very angry when two men in his pub were holding hands.(Al Murray's phrase "I was never confused!" springs to the fore.) But he would happily watch lesbian porn movies. I am sure he would have only voted against male same-sex marriage.
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
iano writes:
I agree, I wouldn't be asking what harm it does to society - but I suspect that was not what you were trying to say. If I were to insert some behaviour which you did find perverse, in the place of homosexual behaviour, then you wouldn't be asking what harm it would do society. I think that eating shit is perverse - but I don't see what harm it does society. Just to clarify...(e.g.) Paedophilia is perverse but not harmful to society: it is harmful to individuals. (I won't describe the actual 'harm' as I hope that is obvious.) The 'fear of paedophilia' (often spread by newspapers) is harmful to society - but it is not perverse. Edited by Panda, : No reason given. Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
iano writes: Message 5 does not describe what harm is done to society. Because: a) there are sufficient numbers of folk who've lost sight of the topic and headed down the worldview vs. worldview dead end (incl. me) b) because our only other intercourse managed to chart a tidy course until called, ironically, off-topic. ..I'll point you back to the topic at hand - you could do worse than begin at my first response at Message 5. Take note of the sample, off the top-of-my-head reason given for my opposition to gay marriage. It might help keep the focus on the actual topic, not on my justifcation for the reason I hold as I do. You have spent far more time avoiding describing the harm caused by gay marriage than it would have taken to describe it.I'll let everyone form their own opinion as to why that would be.
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
iano writes:
Again, you are making this claim. 1) The normalisation of homosexual behaviour is believed to bring about a negative outcome for society at large. When asked to support this statement, you started shouting "Off topic! Off topic!". Your whole argument is built on this premise, but you cannot back it up with anything.You cannot even identify the harm it does! Same-sex marriage is legal is several countries - there must be plenty of evidence of this "negative outcome" - but you have nothing. Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
I would be careful of the equivocation.
'Normal' is not a correct antonym for 'Perverse' in this discussion.
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
'Normal' is a useless word to use, IMHO.
I completely agree that it could be considered normal to be perverse.I guess that shows how inappropriate the word 'normal' is as an antonym to 'perverse'. frako writes:
It could be considered normal for humans, but not normal for animals. If no other being except a small amount of humans where gay then it would not be normal. Edited by Panda, : missed a bit Edited by Panda, : No reason given. Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
iano writes:
Aahh...no children makes you a sinner. Got it. God's order proscribes procreation within marriage. Going outside the marriage doesn't fall within that proscription - which is not to say that God doesn't bless sinners through his general providence.I'll tell the Pope. iano writes:
Do you? Consider who it is you're dealing with (for the purposes of the point believe he exists). Do you suppose to know what's best for all (over the long run) than the person who put it together.Or do you claim to know some passage from the bible regarding same-sex marriage? iano writes:
Thank goodness that we can't flood the world everytime we fuck up. Man can't get his act together long enough to avoid boom and bust every few years - what foresight. What control!Your omniscient god: what foresight? What control? iano writes:
Yes - far more than mere legaility - but no religion at all. Tell that to the secular couple - who see far more in marriage than mere legality.Love: yes. Commitment: yes. Religion: no. What was your point? iano writes:
Oh...I see. If God then marriage is his gig and society messes with it at it's peril. It can't be helped.God invented marriage therefore any marriage must be to god's rules. I'll go tell the majority of the world that gets married but doesn't believe in your god. (Maybe some kind of group email?) God didn't invent marriage and he has no impact on it's legal existence. It can't be helped.
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
iano writes:
Considering the fact that whenever I have tried to get you to address the massive flaws in your arguement you have just cried like a baby - I did not expect very much. There's no material here to work with Panda. Sorry. Clearly you are homophobic but you have to shoe-horn that hatred into the christian religion.
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
iano writes:
I was concentrating on your claims. Rather than concentrate on the topic utilising the example given from the worldview I'm coming from, you demand I approach from your worldviews perspective ("what harm" = some empirically measureable harm). If your claims are off-topic, then you should not be repeatedly making them in this thread. And why would you falsely claim that I asked for empirically measureable harm?Ah yes. Because you are still crying about being held to the statements you make. You think that by adding criteria (that I did not ask for) you can continue to avoid backing up your claims. iano writes:
You seem to have started without the pot.
It's time to shit .. or get off the pot Panda.
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Panda Member (Idle past 3743 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
crashfrog writes:
Which makes me view ICD's comment in a whole different light...
Yeah, I'm sure male bonobos are sucking each other's cocks just for practice. IC writes:
I am now unable to think of a 'special bond' that is 'unexplainable' that doesn't include touching. Besides all that I have had special bonds that are unexplainable with other men that had nothing to do whatsoever with a sexual connection.Seriously - what would be an 'unexplainable special bond'?
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