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Author
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Topic: Is the bible authoritive and truly inspired?
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4219 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: 10-06-2007
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Message 6 of 386 (517912)
08-03-2009 8:47 AM
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Reply to: Message 5 by Peg
08-03-2009 5:52 AM
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Re: Who Are The Authors?
Im happy to discuss any of these individually. Fine, let's start with Moses. Give evidence that Moses wrote any othe books that you attribute to him other than tradition.
There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 5 by Peg, posted 08-03-2009 5:52 AM | | Peg has not replied |
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4219 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: 10-06-2007
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Re: Jewish Canon
Peg writes: no, man chose the canon but not all men were guided by God to do so. Just as Hitler was not being guided by God, even though he claimed to be. purpledawn writes: But you can't clearly show why one is considered to be guided by God and another isn't. Good point, why can't the the men who claim their canon is inspired be as wrong as Hitler. The only proof of inspiration is the claim in the canon itself. Edited by bluescat48, : missing "qs" Edited by bluescat48, : /
There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 23 by purpledawn, posted 08-06-2009 7:14 PM | | purpledawn has replied |
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4219 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: 10-06-2007
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Re: Catholic Canon
The sacred books are chosen to fit the theology of the group making the decision. Man is the authority. Aptly put. Whether the Hebrew Canon, The Septuagent, The Catholic OT & NT, The Protestant OT & NT, Men have made the decisions as to what is inspired and what has not.
There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 29 by purpledawn, posted 08-07-2009 6:26 AM | | purpledawn has not replied |
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4219 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: 10-06-2007
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Message 36 of 386 (518699)
08-07-2009 10:26 AM
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Reply to: Message 30 by Peg
08-07-2009 8:13 AM
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Re: Man is the Authority
the prase 'The book of the law of Moses' and similar references to the first five books of the Bible, are found from the time of Moses successor, Joshua, onward. Joshua was a close assistent to Moses so the fact that he calls the writings 'the law of Moses' testifies that Moses was the author. Almost every other writer , about 200 references, says that law 'of Moses' This is likely why the Jews never needed to question who wrote the Pentateuch. Even Jesus himself said the Pentateuch was the 'Law of Moses' If Joe Blow wrote the pentateuch, it would have been referred to as 'the law of Joe Blow' The fact that the Law is called the Law of Moses has no bearing on who wrote the Pentateuch. It is called the Law of Moses because Moses was the leader of Israel when the Law was given. The book of the Law of Moses simply means that the book covers the Law, not who wrote it.
There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 30 by Peg, posted 08-07-2009 8:13 AM | | Peg has not replied |
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4219 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: 10-06-2007
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Message 45 of 386 (518941)
08-10-2009 12:00 AM
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Reply to: Message 44 by Peg
08-09-2009 11:45 PM
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Re: Jewish Canon
this does not demonstrate that Moses was not the author of Genesis. How did Moses write the book of Genesis, hieroglyphics, cuneiform? there was no Hebrew alphabet at the alleged time of Moses.
There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 44 by Peg, posted 08-09-2009 11:45 PM | | Peg has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 46 by Peg, posted 08-10-2009 12:40 AM | | bluescat48 has not replied |
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4219 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: 10-06-2007
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Message 56 of 386 (519125)
08-11-2009 3:47 PM
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Reply to: Message 53 by Peg
08-10-2009 10:15 PM
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Re: Jewish Canon
Peg writes: unless im missing something else???
Gen11:31 KJV writes: And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son's son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram's wife; and they went forth with them from Ur of the Chaldees, to go into the land of Canaan; and they came unto Haran, and dwelt there. How does Moses know about Ur of The Chaldees when the Chaldees(Chaldeans) didn't occupy Ur until at least the 8th Century BCE, over 500 years after Moses death. Edited by bluescat48, : missing /
There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 53 by Peg, posted 08-10-2009 10:15 PM | | Peg has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 57 by purpledawn, posted 08-11-2009 4:40 PM | | bluescat48 has not replied | | | Message 60 by Peg, posted 08-12-2009 7:42 AM | | bluescat48 has replied |
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4219 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: 10-06-2007
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Message 61 of 386 (519180)
08-12-2009 7:47 AM
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Reply to: Message 60 by Peg
08-12-2009 7:42 AM
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Re: Jewish Canon
Sir Leonard Woolley is an archeologist who made excavations there and dated the site to be around 1943 BCE. The site may have been there, but it was occupied by either Akkadians or Babylonians, Not the Chaldeans. They didn't occupy it until no earlier that the 8th century BCE.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 60 by Peg, posted 08-12-2009 7:42 AM | | Peg has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 62 by Peg, posted 08-12-2009 8:03 AM | | bluescat48 has not replied |
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4219 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: 10-06-2007
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Message 67 of 386 (519634)
08-15-2009 3:53 PM
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Reply to: Message 66 by Peg
08-15-2009 7:20 AM
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Re: Jewish Canon
So why is it a problem that Moses used the name? because it was not known as Chaldea at that time it was either Akkadia or Babylonia depending on when the time was From ~1800 BCE it was Babylonia prior to that Akkadia. After Babylonia it was Assyria, when the Assyrians overthrew the Babylonians, then Chaldea after the Chaldians overthrew the Assyrians in the 7th century BCE, It became part of Persia when the Persian-Mede Coalition overthrew the Chaldeans. Edited by bluescat48, : sp
There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 66 by Peg, posted 08-15-2009 7:20 AM | | Peg has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 68 by Peg, posted 08-15-2009 11:59 PM | | bluescat48 has replied |
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4219 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: 10-06-2007
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Message 69 of 386 (519685)
08-16-2009 9:47 AM
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Reply to: Message 68 by Peg
08-15-2009 11:59 PM
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Re: Jewish Canon
The Chaldeans were at times called neo-Babylobnians because their Capital was the City of Babylon. The Original Babylonians were a totally different people than the Chaldeans.
There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 68 by Peg, posted 08-15-2009 11:59 PM | | Peg has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 74 by Peg, posted 08-17-2009 4:34 AM | | bluescat48 has replied |
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4219 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: 10-06-2007
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Message 75 of 386 (519774)
08-17-2009 6:24 AM
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Reply to: Message 74 by Peg
08-17-2009 4:34 AM
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Re: Jewish Canon
Peg writes: i undertsand that the people themselves changed from time to time, however the land itself was always known as chaldea which is what i was saying earlier...perhaps moses was simply referncing the Chaldeans as the people from the area of chaldea You seem to be missing the point of this. It was only named Chaldea after the Chaldeans occupied the area. At the time of Moses, it was called Babylonia as It was when Abraham was born.
Peg writes: so the name is a reference to the area as opposed to a particular race of people. For example, many nations live in Australia, but all are called 'australians' not because of their race, but because they live on the land called 'australia'
bluescat48 writes: The Chaldeans were at times called neo-Babylobnians because their Capital was the City of Babylon. The Original Babylonians were a totally different people than the Chaldeans. i undertsand that the people themselves changed from time to time, however the land itself was always known as chaldea which is what i was saying earlier...perhaps moses was simply referncing the Chaldeans as the people from the area of chaldea. so the name is a reference to the area as opposed to a particular race of people. For example, many nations live in Australia, but all are called 'australians' not because of their race, but because they live on the land called 'australia' Yes providing the country named before the people who are occupying it. There are many countries which are named for the people who settled it. Germany, Hungary, Turkey, Estonia, Latvia, Finland, Bulgaria are just some. Edited by bluescat48, : misplaced [qs] Edited by bluescat48, : sp
There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 74 by Peg, posted 08-17-2009 4:34 AM | | Peg has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 76 by Peg, posted 08-17-2009 7:28 AM | | bluescat48 has replied |
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4219 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: 10-06-2007
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Message 77 of 386 (519781)
08-17-2009 7:29 AM
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Reply to: Message 76 by Peg
08-17-2009 7:28 AM
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Re: Jewish Canon
Peg writes: Are you are saying that the area only became known as the land of Chaldea, after a race of people called 'chaldean' lived there? Yes.
There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 76 by Peg, posted 08-17-2009 7:28 AM | | Peg has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 78 by Peg, posted 08-17-2009 7:33 AM | | bluescat48 has replied |
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4219 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: 10-06-2007
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Message 79 of 386 (519785)
08-17-2009 7:53 AM
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Reply to: Message 78 by Peg
08-17-2009 7:33 AM
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Re: Jewish Canon
Try this
Jewish Encyclopedia writes: The People: The Chaldeans were a Semitic people and apparently of very pure blood. Their original seat may have been Arabia, whence they migrated at an unknown period into the country of the sea-lands about the head of the Persian gulf. They seem to have appeared there at about the same time that the Arameans and the Sutu appeared in Babylonia. Though belonging to the same Semitic race, they are to be differentiated from the Aramean stock; and Sennacherib, for example, is careful in his inscriptions to distinguish them. When they came to possess the whole land their name became synonymous with Babylonian, and, though conquerors, they were speedily assimilated to Babylonian culture. There seems to be little known as to the actual place that they migrated from.
There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 78 by Peg, posted 08-17-2009 7:33 AM | | Peg has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 81 by Peg, posted 08-18-2009 12:02 AM | | bluescat48 has replied |
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4219 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: 10-06-2007
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Message 82 of 386 (519887)
08-18-2009 5:26 AM
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Reply to: Message 81 by Peg
08-18-2009 12:02 AM
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Re: Jewish Canon
Peg writes: If you look at the hebrew, it says 'Ur of Chaldea' Which still was not called Chaldea until the Chaldeans conquered it. The point is there is no evidence that Moses wrote any of the Bible, the likely scenario, as accepted by a number of people, many being religious scholars, is that the stories were handed down, by word of mouth, from generation to generation and compiled at different times between ~950BCE & ~500BCE after Israel adopted the Phoenician alphabet, during the reign of Solomon.
There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 81 by Peg, posted 08-18-2009 12:02 AM | | Peg has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 83 by Peg, posted 08-18-2009 6:49 AM | | bluescat48 has not replied |
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4219 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: 10-06-2007
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Message 90 of 386 (519997)
08-18-2009 11:31 PM
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Reply to: Message 88 by Peg
08-18-2009 10:29 PM
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Re: Book of the Law
Peg writes: Ezra wrote 2chronicles in 460bce Evidence please.
There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 88 by Peg, posted 08-18-2009 10:29 PM | | Peg has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 91 by Peg, posted 08-19-2009 12:48 AM | | bluescat48 has replied |
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4219 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: 10-06-2007
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Message 94 of 386 (520068)
08-19-2009 8:51 AM
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Reply to: Message 91 by Peg
08-19-2009 12:48 AM
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Re: Book of the Law
The reason the last 2 verses of 2 Chronicles is the same as the beginning od Ezra is that in the original Hebrew Canon, the last book was 2 Chronicles. The original ending was:
2 Chronicles 21 writes: To fulfil the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfil threescore and ten years. The first 2 verses of Ezra were later added to end the book on a good note.
There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 91 by Peg, posted 08-19-2009 12:48 AM | | Peg has not replied |
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