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Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Separation of Church and State | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
FreddyFlash Inactive Member |
quote:That would explain why they established a Christian Separation of Church and State quote:At the time of the adoption of the Constitution and the amendments, the universal sentiment was that Christianity should be encouraged, not any one sect...There can be no substitute for Christianity... that was the religion of the founders of the republic, and they expected it to remain the religion of their descendants. The great, vital and conservative element in our system is the belief of our people in the pure doctrines and divine truths of the gospel of Jesus Christ. [/Quote] Someone chopped the committee report up to make it say what he wanted. Post the entire commitee report here. I am assuming of course that you have actually read the committee report.
quote: That’s a well know bogus David Barton quote.
quote: It was actually 1892; the excerpts you presented were not the Court’s interpretation of the U. S. Constitution or the First Amendment; and the case of Holy Trinity did not even involve the First Amendment.
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5879 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
It sounds to me like you are very serious about truth!
Your a fundamentalist?
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FreddyFlash Inactive Member |
quote: The solution is to bring morality back. The best way to do that is first get the government totally out of religion. Remove "In God We Trust" from the nation's coins, remove "under God" from the Pledge, forbid executive religious recommendations, repeal any legal statute with God or religion as its object and jail any public official who uses the authority of his office to recommend religious commandments to the people. The next thing to do is preach the gospel of Jesus and not the corruption spewed by the Religious Right which passes for Christianity nowhere but in the Temple of Satan.
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FreddyFlash Inactive Member |
quote: I jumped through my computer screen and punched the last bozo that said that to me.
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5879 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
The next thing to do is preach the gospel of Jesus and not the corruption spewed by the Religious Right which passes for Christianity nowhere but in the Temple of Satan. Yep! That is as fundamentalist as it gets. You've become your worst enemy. A true fanatic! And no bones about it threats of violence to boot. I don't fear him that can only kill the body. I fear He that has the power to throw my soul into hell. And since it is my soul, let me be the first to confess that I would be deserving of such a judgement.
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FreddyFlash Inactive Member |
quote: The "No Official National Religion" Interpretation Of The Establishment Clause Is Hogwash! Counterfeit Christians wishing to reunite church and state have endeavored to foist the “No National Church” interpretation of the establishment clause upon the American people ever since 1811 when it was conjured up by the Devil himself and issued to Representative Laban Wheaton (Connecticut) twenty-two years after the First Amendment was written. Laban Wheaton was a Federalist who made no secret of his desire for the government to re-assume civil authority over the duty that we owe to the Creator. However, the House of Representatives in 1811 was unreceptive to his devilish scheme to expand the two Congressional Chaplainships to impose a government established religion over the ten miles square of the District of Columbia. Wheaton and Representative Timothy Pitkin (Massachusetts) challenged Founding Father and President James Madison’s 1811 veto of a bill incorporating an Episcopal Church in Alexandria in the District of Columbia. President Madison, one of the six men who authored the First Amendment, believed the bill violated the establishment clause by establishing rules and procedures that could never be amended by the church, to govern the selection and removal of the minister of the church. (Note: The vetoed law, despite the fact that it prescribed no religious doctrines or opinions, was considered to be one “respecting an establishment of religion” because an ordained Protestant Episcopal minister was considered to have authority from God to issue religious advice to his congregation. Wheaton argued that President Madison's view of the establishment clause “was not the correct principle.” “In his view the objections made by the President to this bill were altogether futile” and “he did not consider the bill any infringement of the Constitution. If it was, both branches of the Legislature, since the commencement of the government, had been guilty of such infringement. It could not be said, indeed, that they had been guilty of doing much about religion; but they had at every session appointed Chaplains, to be of different denominations, to interchange weekly between the Houses. Now, if a bill for regulating the funds of a religious society could be an infringement of the Constitution, the two Houses had so far infringed it by electing, paying or contracting with their Chaplains. For so far it established two different denominations of religion. Mr. W. deemed this question of very great consequence. Were the people of this District never to have any religion? Was it to be entirely excluded from these ten miles square? He should be afraid to come it that were to be the case. The want of time was no sufficient reason against giving this subject mature consideration. What was done ought to be well done. For these reasons he was in favor of the bill lying on the table.” President Madison agreed with Representative Wheaton that Congress had established two religions in 1789 by creating the Congressional Chaplainships. The disagreement was whether the Constitution had been infringed by electing, paying or contracting with their Chaplains. The House of Representatives was of the opinion that President Madison advocated the correct principle and that the Constitution had been infringed by Congress electing, paying or contracting with their Chaplains. It voted 74 to 29 to sustain the President’s veto. Thus, the “No National Church” Interpretation was rejected in favor of the “Total Separation of Religion and Government” interpretation of the President. James Madison was thus installed as the authority on the meaning of the religion clauses. During the Early Days of the Grand and Glorious Republic it was always James Madison's interpretation of the establishment clause that eventually prevailed in every dispute over its meaning. These early Church State disputes included the following: Executive Religious Recommendations James Madison’s view that government religious recommendations were improper prevailed during the Early Years of the Republic. The First U. S. Congress did request the President to issue a religious recommendation to the people but it never claimed that the Constitution granted such power to the President. Furthermore, the President never claimed the Constitution granted such power. The First Congress did not to issue a religious recommendation to the people in 1790. In 1792 and 1794 attempts to pass a joint resolution requesting the issuance of a executive religious recommendations were defeated. During the War of 1812, Congress requested President Madison to issue religious recommendations. The President complied. However, issuance of executive religious recommendations was terminated because the “wartime political religious observances under state authority were kept with ”too much of the old leaven of malice and bitterness’”, and the Gospel employed by ministers and politicians “to point political sarcasm and to rekindle partisan rage.” In 1832, Henry Clay and the other Counterfeit Christians in the Senate took advantage of an impending epidemic and attempted to pass a join resolution requesting President Andrew Jackson to issue a prayer and fasting proclamation. Clay's resolution passed in the Senate but it failed in the House, where Gulian Verplanck of New York closed his famous speech by recommending that Congress "leave prayer to be prompted by the devotion of the heart, and not the bidding of the State." Congressional Prayer Contrary to the widespread myth, there were no daily opening prayers in the First U S. Congress. If you know of any evidence of morning prayers in the official records of the First Congress, please tell me where it is. Article III of the Northwestern Ordinance There was a dispute over whether Article III of the Northwestern Ordinance obligated the government to support religion in the Ohio Territory. The U. S. Congress believed that it did not and several attempts to enact legislation to "give legal effect" to the “support of the gospel” interpretation of Article III never even made it out of committee. Sunday Mail Delivery The Sunday Mail dispute raged from 1810 to the development of the telegraph and railroad train systems. The subject of the controversy was an 1810 post office law that required the transportation and opening of the mail on Sundays. There were numerous attempts by the “Christian Party” to convince Congress to repeal the 1810l law, but they all failed. Representative Colonel Johnson of Kentucky, chairman of the House Post Office Committee, issued a famous report in 1830 that adopted James Madison’s view that religion was exempt from the cognizance of the government. One of the many petitions from citizens supporting the 1810 Post Office law declared that the establishment clause was intended to, “Leave the religion of the people as free as the air they breathe from government influence of any kind.” Ten Commandment Displays in Federal Courts The 1789 Judiciary Act did not include a requirement for the display of the Ten Commandments in Federal Courts. I am not convinced that such a suggestion was actually introduced in Congress. Conclusion During the Early Years of the Republic (1789 to 1860) there were no disputes over “one Nation under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance, “In God We Trust” on the nations coins or government displays of the Ten Commandments. The Federal Government respected God’s authority over the conscience of men and refrained from using its legislative authority to issue religious advice to the people. Sources of Information: Read Laban Wheaton’s argument for the No National Religion interpretation at No webpage found at provided URL: http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llac&fileName=022/llac022.db&recNum=489 Read the official record of the 74 to 29 vote in 1811 in the House of Representatives in favor of James Madison’s interpretation of the establishment clause at No webpage found at provided URL: http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llac&fileName=022/llac022.db&recNum=496 Read New York Representative Gulion Verplacnk’s 1832 speech on the subject of Presidential Religious Recommendations at http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llrd&fileName..." Read the 1801 petition citizens and inhabitants of Wayne County, in the Northwest Territory praying for the support of the Gospel and for erecting the buildings necessary for the celebration of divine service.http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llac&fileName... Read about the 1802 announcement of Senator Uriah Tracy of Connecticut that he would ask leave to bring in a bill the nest day to carry into effect the support for schools and religion in the Northwestern Territory. The official records show that Tracy did not attempt to introduce the bill. No webpage found at provided URL: http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llac&fileName=011/llac011.db&recNum=8 Read about the 1802 appointment of a House committee to inquire into the matter of support of religion within the Territory of the United States Northwest of the river Ohio. The committee never reported the question to the floor.
http://memory.loc.gov/... Read about the Bill reported out of committee (but not passed) in 1828 that would have authorized the use of federal land in the State of Ohio for the support of religion.
http://memory.loc.gov/... Edited by FreddyFlash, : To add references Edited by AdminAsgara, : shortened some url displays to fix page width
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5879 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Yawn...
Go do it man! Drive out the Satan... There's a whole generation out there looking for a savior and they don't want mine. They're all yours for times and half a time.
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Adminnemooseus Administrator Posts: 3976 Joined: |
Seems like quite a message, maybe even "Post of the Month" (POTM) level, but you have no references included. Without such, you seem to be in "plagerism territory". Regardless, links and references are nice things.
Please add such, via edit, to your message. If you or anyone else feels the need to reply to this moderator message, please do it at the "General..." topic, link below. There supply a link back to this message. Adminnemooseus New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts.
Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to:
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Adminnemooseus Administrator Posts: 3976 Joined: |
My impression is that you are adding quite a bit of noise and relatively little signal to this topic (aka "Your posting crap messages").
Please try to post content of real substance, or don't post anything. To others: Are you being guilty of the same offense? If so, please consider this a warning to you also. If Rob or anyone else feels the need to reply to this moderator message, please do it at the "General..." topic, link below. There supply a link back to this message. Adminnemooseus New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts.
Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to:
General discussion of moderation procedures Thread Reopen Requests Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum Other useful links:
Forum Guidelines, [thread=-19,-112], [thread=-17,-45], [thread=-19,-337], [thread=-14,-1073]
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FreddyFlash Inactive Member |
Deleted
Edited by FreddyFlash, : No reason given.
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LinearAq Member (Idle past 4706 days) Posts: 598 From: Pocomoke City, MD Joined: |
Hangdawg13 writes: Only because there is nothing to fill the void that would be left. Perhaps the public schools should be required to compete with private schools for funding. Each child could be given vouchers equivalent to the amount of tax money that is allotted them for education. The parents could choose the school for their children. Bad schools would get little money. I do realize that abolishing public schools right now would bring immediate disaster on us. First problem: How do the poor get their children to the school they want for them. Anyway, what choice does the government have with regard to religion in school? The God you want your teacher to send your prayers to may be objectionable to the Muslim student next to you. I think the default position has to be not praying at all. It wasn't that long ago that the little Jewish boy who wouldn't pray to Christ would be beaten up by all the "good" Christian boys.
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FreddyFlash Inactive Member |
Stephen Colbert vs. Congressman Lynn Westmoreland (GA)
The Colbert Report - June 14, 2006 Congressman Westmorland wants the Ten Commandments posted in government building but reveals that he only knows three of the ten commandments. The "oh no" look on the Congressman's face when Colbert ask him what the Ten Commdanments are is a worth a million bucks! lode777 situs judi slot gacor milik MPO Pusat winrate #1
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3992 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 7.5 |
Thanks, Freddy--made my Sat. morning!
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FreddyFlash Inactive Member |
Americans United Welcomes Defeat Of 'Pledge Protection Act'
Wednesday, June 28, 2006 Dangerous 'Court-Stripping' Measure Fails In Committee On Tie Vote Americans United for Separation of Church and State today hailed the House Judiciary Committee’s defeat of a bill that would have stripped the federal courts of their ability to hear cases involving the Pledge of Allegiance. The so-called “Pledge Protection Act” (H.R. 2389) failed on a 15-15 vote this morning. One Republican, U.S. Rep. Bob Inglis of South Carolina, voted with 14 Democrats to scuttle the measure. The bill was heavily backed by Religious Right groups, which seek to undercut the authority of the federal courts to rule on church-state issues. “This is a tremendous victory,” said the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of American United. “A proposal this at odds with our system of government should never have come up for a vote to begin with.” Lynn noted that the bill is an assault on the fundamental right of Americans, especially religious minorities, to stand up for their rights in court. “Far from protecting the Pledge of Allegiance,” Lynn said, “this misguided measure trampled on the rights of Americans and tried to force an unnecessary showdown between two branches of government.”
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
The only "tyranny" is that you are not allowed to impose your faith on others, just as they are EQUALLY prevented from imposing theirs on you. The only "tyranny" is that you are not allowed to impose a tyranny of christianity on others, either in government, or in schools, or in public places. While I agree that no particular religion should be part of our government, the "tyranny" is when people try to take God out of our schools, and government completely.
quote: If you pray in school, you are not part of a religion. You can pray in the mannor of any religion, or choose not to pray, without fear. Because we are free. That is what freedom is about. That is what America is about. When we took prayer out of the schools, we made atheism a religion, and a national one at that.
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