The TRUE reason for the EvC controversy, and why it can not be resolved.

I know everybody at EvC likes to make up their own theology and there are probably as many Christian theologies here as there are posters, but you are in disagreement with the majority historic church on this one. The Fall was all our doing, and trying to blame God for it is SUCH a typical symptom of it too.

only problem--I'm not a christian. Don't get me wrong, I'm not atheistic, I just don't accept Jesus or God as defined in the Bible. I'm what you call agnostic

In the context of a continent of warring raping and pillaging tribes, feudalism was GREAT progress -- it consolidated areas and provided protection against the enemy tribes and criminal bands, and built up the economy which otherwise would never have happened. Injustice is the mark of fallen man so nobody's saying it was an ideal system -- such is impossible to fallen man -- it simply was the best they could have had at the time they had it, and eventually Christian inspiration did away with its injustices and made its methods unnecessary overall as Europe became civilized bit by bit.Aristotle was indeed extremely important to the Roman Church, but it was his thinking that opposed Galileo because he clung to the earth-centered universe. The Bible has no opposition to Galileo even though the RCC rationalized Aristotle by it.Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance yet. How very retro. You must be very young. Or a very old hippie.

No problem, at EvC being an agnostic or an atheist or a Buddhist doesn't stop anyone from having their own Christian theology.This message has been edited by Faith, 03-25-2006 05:18 PM

Somebody has to do it. The loudest self-styled "Christians" here don't know the first thing about theology (which is the TRUE reason for the EvC controversy).

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It doesnt have anything to do with differing versions of theology.Adam and Eve may have sinned, but God had a choice in what He did.
You take away that choice, and you take away God's omnipotence.You can't have it both ways. Either God brought on the Fall, as He chose to do so; or God was bound by the sins of Adam and Eve, thus negating ommnipotence.

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"The good Christian should beware the mathematician and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of hell." - St. Augustine

I think zero is generally credited to the Indians (although the Muslims were responsible for introducing it to Europe I believe).

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I wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then

I'll believe that. The point is that Christianity is really not responsible for much except retarding science. Even Mendel was pulled from his experiments and told to become an Abbot. There are no real advances that I know of in education or science that I would call Christian.Christians that claim that science or education progressed because of Christianity are simply totally ignoring the record. If it were not for the knowledge retained in Muslim Spain, Europe would likely STILL be in the Dark Ages.Since education was often limited under the Christian Theocracies to just the Clergy, it's not at all surprising that some outstanding science came from Christian institutions. But it must also be noted that most of the advances were made in spite of Christianity.That continues today. Those Christians today that oppose the TOE and teaching the true age of the earth and universe are as guilty of promoting and encouraging ignorance. Little has changed.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Don't you guys get tired of pushing the same old phony definition of "omnipotence?" Talk about literal minded!! And completely closed to learning anything. God's power is GOOD because God is GOOD. He cannot do anything EVIL, He cannot commit sin or tempt to sin. To say that means he's not omnipotent is just plainStupid.

But isn't one of God's facet's omnipotence?

Yes, well, what I want to know is why Asgara would make a comment like this when I was clearly on the topic and was not making a personal comment about Jar, but rather about his argument.

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"Headpiece filled with straw, Alas!"--T. S. Eliot

God is Omnipotent. But people here like to define this stupidly to mean he's not omnipotent if he can't do evil. God cannot violate His own laws or His own nature.This message has been edited by Faith, 03-25-2006 10:34 PM

Would like me to replay all that, Asgara?And then we could let the posters decide.Or if you would like to make a comment, you can.

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"Headpiece filled with straw, Alas!"--T. S. Eliot

in Message 67 Robin said: To which jar replied in Message 69 and again in Message 71: The robin in Message 74 misrepresented what jar said by posting: You really need to learn to read what's posted instead of what you think was said. If I had not wanted to talk about the subject why would I have said "but if you want to start a thread on it I'll be happy to discuss my views related to that."Why do you wilfully ignore what people say?Now if you have anything else to say about the subject take it to the proper thread which is Message 1

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Neither can He fail - which is why a "fall" is impossible. No doubt the universe is unfolding as it should - and exactly as planned from the beginning.

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