Internet Porn

HA HA HA HA HA HAaaaaaaaa. Sweet.

Go to one and I think it will be self-evident. Go to one and you can see for yourself how many. So which is it Scraf? Some men have difficulty with intimacy, or many, many men have difficulty with it? I'll make it easier for you, give us a percentage (your own estimate is fine).I submit that some women have difficulty with intimacy and this is a human traight/failing regardless of gender. Do you disagree?What is 'real intimacy?' What is 'real relationship stuff?' You keep referring to this, I'm curious to understand what you mean by this.What about the 59% of the US male population over 18 cohabitating with and/or married to women, are they incapable of 'real intimacy' and 'real relationship stuff?'I submit that by virtue of cohabitation and/or (semi)permanent commitment, these men are capable of intimacy and 'relationship stuff.'Do you have a single SHRED of evidence beyond your obviously very personal perspective that this is true? Hate? What behaviors do they demonstrate that indicates they hated their spouses, or all women, before they got married?This message has been edited by custard, 06-29-2004 12:48 PM

AH ha ha ha ah ha hah ha ha ha ha! Sorry, but you need to go back to the Japanese porn section and check out more videos.I lived in Japan and was exposed to a significant amount of that country's pornography. I was shocked that such an outwardly demure society had such an infatuation with little girls in school uniforms, rape fantasy, and sado-masochism. Usually all three combined.I saw it everywhere - in the Manga, in the adds in the back of magazines, in the Anime. I had never been exposed to women who were blindfolded, gagged, bound, and covered with hot wax - then I went to Japan; and I swear, compared to the US, it was omnipresent.And Schraf, where do you think the phrase Bukkake came from? It refers to multiple male partners ejaculating on a woman's face - a woman who, in Japanese porn, is often bound in some way.That's why I laughed in response to your post. It's not you, but I couldn't have picked a WORSE example to demonstrate the type of pornography that puts emphasis on the woman's pleasure. But perhaps I misread them your previous posts?This message has been edited by custard, 06-29-2004 02:14 PM

People can make the exact same argument about women. Women never get together and gossip about the men in the office? Heck, from my observations of women's discussions (as valid as yours regarding men), I think women can be ten times more vicious then men.I just don't understand what any of this proves except people can be real assholes towards each other. Men don't like women? Or men don't like certain behaviors about women? I think that phrase is referring to the latter. In fact, the statement is just as valid for any close relationship - especially when people live together.Aren't there phrases that express similar sentiments about family? Does that mean sons hate fathers and daughters hate mothers? Well I have heard some sons say they hate their fathers, I guess my observation, combined with a clever turn of phrase, makes the statement 'all sons hate their fathers' true? It does using your reasoning.

I saw this article in the la times and thought it was relevant to the discussion:

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The Supreme Court insisted again today that free speech is the rule on the Internet, as it barred the government from enforcing a law that would have made it a crime for commercial websites to post sexually explicit material that children and teenagers could obtain.

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In a 5-4 ruling, the justices said there seem to be other more effective ways to keep pornography away from minors. In particular, the court said parents can install software filters on their computers to screen out sexually oriented sites.

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I agree that the parent has the responsibility to take measures to restrict images and material he/she does not want his child to see.This message has been edited by custard, 06-29-2004 03:44 PM

Schraf, when you make a claims like

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Many, many men have varrying levels of difficulty with intimacy. (So do many women, but I think, as a group, women are less uncomfortable with emotional closeness)

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AND

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Lack of intimacy is one of the biggest complaints women have of their men when in long term relationships. Little personal connection.

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I think you do need to provide specific evidence to support these claims. If you don't, it really does appear that you are making claims based on conjecture and your own, singular, possibly unique, experiences which are not necessarily applicable to people outside of your immediate circle.You make a point of telling holmes that you are not referring to ALL men, but when you refer to 'many, many' men, that sounds like 'most men' to my ears - which in turn sounds like a sweeping generalization of men. This also demands proof.When you hedge with

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Some men find intimacy extremely difficult and discomforting.

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this only undermines your claim since I can make the same claim about women. I could also claim that some men kill their wives, does that support the claim that 'many, many men don't like women?'Finally, you are shifting your claim from 'men don't like women' to 'men have difficulty with intimacy.' Is it both? Or are you dropping the 'men don't like women' claim. And I submit that men do this. If they didn't do this, they wouldn't be able to be in lasting relationships - e.g. cohabitation and marriage. I don't deny that there are disfunctional relationships, but not necessarily because the men involved don't do what you have described.You really need to show your evidence that 'many, many men' do not do what you have desribed - share hopes and fears, make a connection at a deep level (wouldn't that be love by the way?), and loves and is loved in return.I know I do this. My experience is that EVERY man I know involved in a long-term relationship (with men or women) does this. So when you make the claim that many, many men don't do this, or have problems doing this, or, most appalling of all, don't like women except for sex - I find that ignorant and biased.Certainly as ignorant and biased as statements like "all evolutionists are athiests" or "all women are self-absorbed and have love me daddy issues."This message has been edited by custard, 07-01-2004 03:34 AM

I wasn't aware you used to be a man at one time. How else would you know this? What, exactly, do you think men talk about with other men - ESPECIALLY when we are young and our closest friends are (SURPISE!) other young men?Do you think we just talk about guns, sports, and the chicks we want to bang? That's as assinine as assuming all women do when they get together is gossip. Don't you think?You didn't answer my question:

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So which is it Scraf?(sic) Some men have difficulty with intimacy, or many, many men have difficulty with it? I'll make it easier for you, give us a percentage (your own estimate is fine).

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Please give me a percentage - your own estimate is fine. "Many, many" is too ambiguous to work with. Do you have any evidence for this besides personal experience? So that grants you the right to paint men as a group with a broad brush? I submit your fathers 'buddies' were simply that, buddies. There are friends, and there are friends. Unfortunately most people don't find out what their friends are really made of until they need them most. Many? Or many, many? See how the percentage would help out here? I don't know if you mean 'alot many,' or a 'majority of many,' or what.So makes you think you know what the 'full potential' of men's intimacy is?Additionally:
1-What makes you think have the majority of the intimacy problems?
2-Don't women have problems relating to men?
3-If a man isn't as intimate with a woman as she'd like, why do you claim the man has the intimacy issues? What evidence makes you think it is the man's problem?No more anecdotes please, you know better than to think those are applicable to large populations.This message has been edited by custard, 07-01-2004 03:41 AM

Nice reply holmes.Two quick points regarding this: Actually its 60% of all men over 18 are married to or live with women. There are even more who are in relationships with women (and men) so the atual percentage of men in relationships is much higher than 60%. The 60% is out of the male population (over 18) only, not out of the overall adult population in the US. I didn't determine what the % of women cohabitating, or married to, men was. But now that you mention it...Looks like 45% of women over 18 are not married nor living with a man (from US census 2000 - same as my previous post).That means that a greater percentage of men (59%) are married to or living with women, than women (55%) are married to or living with men.This message has been edited by custard, 07-01-2004 07:02 AM

Contra, you need to show some data supporting all these generalizations and claims you have made:1- The amount of porngraphy using forced participants is a significant percentage and is representative as pornography, as an industry, in any way.2- The market for slave traded girls is western men. 3- Many men do not like women very much. Please include the definitions for 'many men' (a percentage would be best) and 'very much' (statistically valid examples, not anecdotes please) 4- Interracial pornography promotes and maintains racist stereotypes.5- Where, specifically, holmes has abused feminists. So far you have provided nothing to support these positions despite request after request after request. At present, you have nothing to support your position but opinion. Sorry, the unsubstantiated opinion of an internet poster doesn't carry much weight... none in fact.