Internet Porn

hello holmes,I stopped reading these posts after a page or two.It seems that the back and forth is a debate that will not change opinions anyway.I did clip this (below) from one of your posts, which I think offers a slightly different way to look at, not porn per se, but just what it is on this subject of sexual freedom that makes the discussion important."Personally I like Queer Eye, but I am not going to apologize for what it is. It is a statement that to be attractive one must conform and project an image of material wealth (which includes stereotypes of sexuality)."Attractive?Isn't that interesting, that the motivating force, "to be attractive," is such a powerful thing.I mean, it seems in the seven passages of life which we all go through, a number of them are formative in content. That is, education and developmental in their content and even purpose.We look at the academic and the vocational challanges we set before ourselves, as parents and educators, and as a society, as they regard the moldimg of the next generation. We do this with much reflection and a lot of money made available through taxes.We are all very interested in this process, and in fact, much of the commentary in this thread concerns whether there is a negativity determental to the young people in this availablity of porn.My point here, without comment or argument, is this.The Adolescent Stage of Development (Eric Ericson) seems intensely interested in just this idea of Attractiveness, in particular, to the opposite sex.But, the motivation to be "attractive" is general, too, as regards status and socially acceptablity within the genders themselves. That is, girls have mush interest in their status among other girls, in terms of their attractiveness But, it is their attractablity to boys which we are talking about. Status concerns how attractive the girl is to the opposite sex, sort of her "sex power."Perhaps personal sexual attractiveness to the opposite gender is much less important for boys I think so.Now, in this stage of development, in terms of physiological readiness, the boys are at peak for seeing girl as attractive in general. The dynamic is perfect for molding whatever the society deems to promote as being attractive, I would argue. If fact, the real porn starts right here, doesn't it? I mean, we inhibit the actual sexual unions, and the girls are basically tempting the boys.What I am saying is, inspite of doing no harm, are we, the physicians of their growth, maturation, and development, "gardening these beautiful creatures of the next generation" wisely? What ought be the most attractive of human qualities? Sexy bosoms and induendo of willingness to go all the way?Or, are we detouring them, not by the silly availablity of this pornography, but by all the subtle persausions that lead them to see themselves as a more "pornographic," sexually attractive, materially wealthy, and obviously hedonistic personality that is both legitimate and desirable, socially approved?I mean, does our nation, our economic success, our future rest on educating the next generation about the qualities of attractiveness that focus of these inputs, and, by neglect, denigrate and ignor things that ought be more attractive? Do the nerds get sexual gratification in this environment or is it the Jocks? That is sort of where I am coming from.How does this adolescent stage, and how we nurture the young people passing through it, benefit the social contract as it regards the other six catagories of people in those other Eric Ericson Stages of Life?I mean, the Stage of Trust, from -1 through 5 years old, for instance, has had to accept 1,500,000 abortions in order to accomodate the gratification of these teen girls, promiscuity being the best bait in the world to be attractive to boys, right?That kind of idea, I mean, how does that fit in with the little part of the whole puzzle of sex and norms and morals and ethics and social progrmming in general... Like where is this promiscuity as it regards the Middle Aged Stage of people where divorce is now 60% and single parent families numerous and common? See where I am going? it isn't porno CAUSING this. Porn is a measurement of how far we have taken "THIS."Its not that porn is the cause at all, merely one of the effects of manipulating the large question concerning the urge to merge with others, need for a sense of belongingness, self-acceptance as regards esteem, delayed physiological needs in regard to average marriages @ age 28 today, and the effect on aesthetic needs such as honr, integrity, duty, social responsibilty... you know the self actualization process of Abraham Maslow.Is pornography merely a ruler that measure social interest in what really attracts us and is really attractive, profitable and realistic as concerns goals to shot for in the real world?Rev. 17:4 And the woman, (symbolizing those who have Institutionized a system of sexual seduction into a failed matrimony), was arrayed in (recognizable hues of) purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls (of her courtships and divorces), having a golden cup in her hand, (a sacrimental place in the order of religion), full of abominations (of abortions, STD, gay marriage), and the filthiness of her (sins of adolescence of her numerous) fornications (before choosing the victim of her marriage):

Hi,
What you tell us is a small peice in a much larger hidden educational program the teens and pre-teens experience.Holmes explained earlier in the rhetorical question: What sexual practices do we inform our children about? They are kept completely in the dark. The vast majority of times they are told to abstain.This is nonsense. They are taught by the behavior of the teens that preceeded them. It is and always has been passed. This is common knowledge, and I am sure no roofs or arguments are necessary.They are kept in the dark about condoms, maybe, by the very parents who tell us that the 1.5 million yearly abortions can be stopped by church people "joining in" and telling their own kids, I guess, to use condoms.I am not sure what this condom argument mmeans, except to dump on people WHO do step in and do replaced the vacuum of social responsibilty to educate the teens and compete with the education in their music, the Rappers, the media, the movies, the TV... all educational processes. How anyone can sy that we are NO educting by default seems strange.What is true, is that by doing nothing, and complaining that the religious community need assist in teaching the safe practices of sex, these people deflect a parental responsibility to do so themselves. After all, if they are so blind that they do not realize that silence on the issue of sex is equivalent today to condoning whatever it is the kids all are doing, that is, if the parents are not out proclaiming abstinence, then they ought ought be getting real educational around their homes, maybe as early as 9 years of age. Condoms on their kitchen tables, on the car dashboard.Hey, who are these people kidding, they are social irresponsible and pushing the fault on the very people who DO educate their kids to just say "no."I mean, if your kid gets an abortion, you didn't educate her... religiously or paganistically.I think abortion is a report card on the parents who did nothing. Not a good excuse against people who are doing something like Abstinence, don't you?What do people understand social responsibilty to mean?If, in the raising of the next generation, as Holmes admits, we abdicate educational input, and pretend to the higher ideal of personal freedom sure to cause 1,500,000 unhappy young girls and unhappy woulda been babies, if AIDS is epidemic, if.... how can people say this:"They are kept completely in the dark."That is, and not realize that the DARK is where the parents are. The teens and pre-teens are way into the lights, the bright ligths of wide open OK!But, it must be a personl matter in your own house, educating your own teens. The whole thing is totally founded on both sides by Belief. Both sides are divided by a religious faith in what they say,one moralistic Christian and the other paganisitc amoral. The issue has gone on unresolved in every generation, old people posting somehow on the subject while the teens are, and always have been, in darkness.

No.
Don't go to a lot of trouble to bring research to my attention.I have never seen an open mind on these boards, including my own. We merely present mini-debates using readily available arguments, no originality at all, on most any subject.
In fact, originality immediately is subject to ridicule because NOBODY agrees with that.I think you mis-read my post anyway. Probably, I wasn't easy to follow because, to tell the truth, knowing in advance the impotence of anything I or anyone else might say, why edit and polish?The quick reading of your post here seems to agree with my own out look anyway.There is Sex Education going on from very early on. It has a life of its own. It is not really analyzed and presented the way we educate kids about things like vocations and academics.As you said, being attractive is both a grooming and economic art. We start early with the adult examples and the Rochk n roll/rappin' musicians, the media, the socialization process that happens to be present, unchecked, unregulated, and dark, in that we never consciously and objectively examine it and shape it. We pretend that we inform and prepare teens for handling it, but really, its a peer thingee, we wouldn't, couldn't, and don't understand it.It is our culture, and it is undeniably ancient, simple de facto, it is and always was taboo to mess with it.Schools can not really do a sex education much beyond biology. The Surgeon General or any official would be crucified by all parents. These parent demand the sole right to do this themselves, and, of course, they don't.My point is not that Christians do a great job. It was only that the liberals who cry, "condoms are the answer," say their advice fails because of lack of Christian support. A cop out to excuse on going failure to stem 1,500,000 abortions/ STD, etc.I think no one will move on this, and the course of affairs will continue towards a total toleration of everyone's right to consensual sexual freedom. The growing forces that are currently lobbying for "Man-Boy Love," have associations, organizations, high hopes of changing future laws. I wonder if the people here have any limits on their argument that what we do today is Ok, but what we do in the future... is total sexual freedom OK with you?I also wonder, say im comparision to Academic Education, just how high up the ladder is Sex Education (enculturalization, presently, of course, no ed taking place) as it impacts the lives of people."All that it takes for evil to prevail is, arguments..."

Hi holmes,I can not miss the tone of sincerity in your post, hoping that the human condition might improve with less oppressive resraint and such moral imposition.To be fair sided, in what you see as a cinder in the eye of the religious community, by omission, failing to emphasizing the use of condoms in their instruction, it is apparent that the ancient monotheistic principles, Xion, Jewion, and even muslinion, are no offered even handedly on the pagan side, which promotes the sexual license long advocated by their religion, either.But, none of this iconcerns where I am coming from. I find that no one, pagan or monotheistc will tolerate a sexual conversation with their kids and anyother adult, except maybe grandmom, maybe I said. This, in spite of having no clue how to do so themselves.And, observable behaviors by pre-teens concerning their parents, siblings, and the social environment usurp the role of formal efforts anyway.As far as my own "feelings" on this, emphasizing a recognizable openness to reconsider, since feelings are grounded in so m8ch which is void of logic and empirical input....... I am for real early "marriages." I am for sex for teens even without formal matrimony. I am for accomodaying the hormones, not the economy, nor the docial status, no the gradual realization that kids can be an important next step in a life completely single and self center before. And, for tax breaks, money, and so forth.See how free I think sex ougth be? Free of all the baggage which pagan and sion culture presently attaches to the most basic of adolescent drives. And, by duch a device, 13-14 year old sexual unions, hopefully, the ppresent evil consequences attendent with the present whoredom
might vanish:AdolescenceWhat is life, if not fun!
Goin' school, layin' in the sun.
Humpin' girls, Devil may care,
Practicin' for middle age affair.Let's do drugs, while we wait.
What's more fun, on a date?
Marriage time is way off...
We'll imitate the monkey and the sloth.Welfare thru the roof...
Use condoms, don't be a goof!
Murder babies, or tax to pay,
With this system, we will stay.Anti- or Pro, from Moses' day,
Arguments,... while we the girls lay.
Rolling dope and in the hay,
Please, continue the debate, we pray.Mom and dad, let us play,
In adolescence we wanta stay.
Party both night and day,
Sexual pleasure straight or gay.Yes, abortion seems a crime
During our long adolescence time.
But, sex is soooo much fun,
We'll kill a daughter or our son.STD and Aids,
Homo-gay blades,
Crime for drugs,
And Rap promotin' thugs...13 to 30... This is fun!
Join GenX, and get some.
Stretch out school,
dumbin' down, actin' the fool.College now is 7 years,
Dormin' together, no more jeers.
Oral sex recommended by peers,
Brushin' hard to end chlamydia fears.Use my daughter, just for fun!
Men no longer use the shotgun.
Spread her legs, make a grandson,
Kill the Bastard when you're done.This is 2003...
By 2K50, where we be?
Is the next Big Bubble to burst,
Will our Empire do better? Do worse?Haven't they all fell?
Mocked by History, gone to hell...
Was it sexual witchcraft?
Or, that the men refused the draft?Why not be Anti- or Pro,
Never let the argument go.
Prevent the focus on the sex,
Go "F" yourself, says Gen X.We've got a roof, and plenty drugs,
Don't do good in school no mo'
We lay the ladies before they're wife.
We love this hedonistic life!

well, I think you did say you are living in Demark or c;ose to it.No doubt you are so myoptic because you are very middle class. Certainly, aren't you far removed from the lower classes where the education you think possible, and the parents whom you believe capable to perform it are nat clearly imaged in your thinking?Get real. Here in america, the dumbin' down in my poem is for real. America is having trouble teaching reading, writing, and arith'mticy.The hoards of lower/lower middle class young people who need what you advise will be long pregnant or into abortion.I am even more sure that getting them married is the solution. End the 16 years of sexual exchanges and, I might add, sexual abstinences that are NOt intended. I mean, the number of guys who never get sexual with girls, are out of the loop, is way up there. I am sure homosexuality is not exactly 100% treference, but often as close as some nerdies get to interpersonal sexual contacts. I mean, a long time, 13-28, that is 15 years before the economic considerations make marriage possible today for some people. That is a long wait while masterbating and watching the girls all chase down the dreamy guys that know how to get them interested.But, it way bigger a problem, and my poem might seem ofensive to you, but young people have been tellong me that they really think about what it says, because it is all too real for them.

You seem to recognize that "all is not well in the world."I refer to the adolescnet sexul educational world.That is enough. You KNOW things ought be changed, keep working on it. No need to hear my two cents. I hope the young people you apparently are so effective with, the more upper class of the present society are responding.
I do NOT think that the solution will be what I said seems biologically and hormonely intelligent, that the ulture replaces the systematic exploitation of each generation by subverting their normal proclivity toward sexually intercourse beginning immediately at 13-15 and used to the maximium which they will never re-experience thereafter... all with the support (financially speaking0 the acquisence and the blessing of the older generation. '
This would be a marked change from the present system, which restrains their full exercise of the normal sexual impulse and urge, and detours them into a wait of 15 years for a supposed financial readiness. This of course is a middle class wait.The system neither expects nor cares if the lower class waits, but encourages a supposed wait by incalcating a subculture which the ancients called the "fires of Molech."See what I meant? We could talk and talk and talk... no change in the system though, the subculture will greet the next generation, as if a God, transcending us, our deaths and talks,... living again and again, resurected in the next generation, over and over, immortal, a Pagan God.

Here, you say what I also am saying.I am sure that the snaity you evidence here doesn 't reach me when we reply directly because of the naturalness of taking the adversarial side and reading into side issue not intended.Little babies don't eat much, nor is any space in the house lost by the husbanding of a young girl. No expenses rise to the two fanilies that are not encumbered upon them in the separation to these two young people. As far as experience and education and preparation for life and all the supposed lost opportunities because these two young people get married and have the best sex and the most sex because it is the best time for them to so do,.. none of that interfers with any of the things that these other non thinkers mention.It doesn't retrict them from having all the fun I had, which you know, neither i nor you really had as much sexual pleasure as if we had maried at 15. Neither would it interfer with my academic education, because my experience was that the opposite is and remains true. Unmarried and adolescent is almost diametrically opposed to a good formal academic Education or a serious commitment to vocation interests. But, surely, if not you, others will argue this.I also realize that others will find every reasona dnidea to project against eliminating the obvious social sex problem by alleviating the cause, no sex. They will contend that this suppose adolecscent period is the time for a fair and universal distribution of sex. They will argue forever that "all is well in the world of adolescence." Except... not with me.Excusing with prophylactics?We GIVE condoms away,
In the classrooms of our schools,
We debate nationally the Abortion reality,
There's still 1.5 million fools!Excusing with prophylactics?"Out." The accepted answerin',
Teens asked, "Where are you goin?"
As if we don't be knowin'
They're out "there" doin'/screwin'Excusing with prophylactics?We pretend its (1900) Nineteen Hundred,
And let the taboo reign,
We're to pretend they won't mess up,
1.5 Mil abortions,... again and again...Excusing with prophylactics?They fail their tests in school.
They drink to death in college.
Drugs excuse sexual behaviors
They, nor we, need acknowledge.Excusing with prophylactics?And all the while we,
Parents and adults, deny...
This is as things Be.
On pregnancies, that we can rely.Excusing with prophylactics?We pass the "buck,"
Aware the kids will f--k.
Excusing with prophylactics,
In our approaching geriatrics,...Excusing with prophylactics?The irresponsibility
Is more easily placed,
On a youthful culpability,
By inaction, who's disgraced?Excusing with prophylactics?