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Author Topic:   There is an appalling lack of historical evidence backing the Bible's veracity
Me4Him
Junior Member (Idle past 5675 days)
Posts: 19
From: TN
Joined: 10-06-2008


Message 224 of 306 (485330)
10-07-2008 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by Coragyps
10-04-2008 5:00 PM


Re: Some recent evidence of the Bible's
Just what is "Evidence"????
Two people can "VIEW" the same "Evidence" and walk away with two different conclusions.
So, is evidence really evidence or a matter of "BELIEF"??????
Atheist say there is no God, yet admit that Jesus existed.
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, (Emmanuel, God with us)
Scripture tells us that only "Believers" can understand the scriptures.
Lu 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
Having a correct interpretation of evidence is "paramount" to arriving at the "TRUTH".
Scripture tell us that without (PHYSICAL) "Signs and wonders", Jews won't "Believe".
Joh 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.
1Co 1:22 For the Jews require a sign,
And much like Israel, today many people are still looking for "physical Evidence" to prove the scriptures.
As Atheist admit to the existence of Jesus, yet deny God exist, without "FAITH", man's interpretation of whatever evidence that does exist will never be "Correct".
All interpretations of evidence, (for the time being) are based on a "BELIEF",
Of course "Judgment day" will be the final "Proof".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by Coragyps, posted 10-04-2008 5:00 PM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Me4Him
Junior Member (Idle past 5675 days)
Posts: 19
From: TN
Joined: 10-06-2008


Message 233 of 306 (485427)
10-08-2008 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 232 by PaulK
10-08-2008 7:34 AM


Re: The Bible's veracity
quote:
With regard to religions such as Christianity, it's plainly a case of "belief" without supporting evidence.
I believe "Science" attempts to "TEST" each "theory" before coming to a conclusion about it's Veracity.
however, in order to test a theory one would have to understand the "precepts" (prinicples) on which it is based to see if the "results" were the same as that "Prophesied" by those "precepts".
Of course, failing to understand the theory's precepts would negate any possiblility of testing the theory.
So, we have one group of "Scientist" (Christians) who have understood/tested the veracity of scripture and found the results to be precisely as "predicted". (prophesied)
And another group of "Scientist" (unbelievers) that doesn't understand, and without the ability to test, deny it's verscity based on their "Belief", rather than the actual results of a test.
Would you say that is "good Science"???
Scripture doesn't only prophecy future events, it also includes a "SCHEDULE" (timeframe) in which these events will occur,
The "Economic meltdown" the world is presently experiencing has been prophesied from "Genesis", for our time period.
Jesus condemned those of his day for being able to "read the signs of the sky", but not the "signs of the "TIMES".
Once understood/tested, the "Evidence" of scripture's verscity is without question, and the only evidence against it is an untested "BELIEF".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by PaulK, posted 10-08-2008 7:34 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 235 by Huntard, posted 10-08-2008 12:58 PM Me4Him has replied
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Me4Him
Junior Member (Idle past 5675 days)
Posts: 19
From: TN
Joined: 10-06-2008


Message 238 of 306 (485441)
10-08-2008 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 235 by Huntard
10-08-2008 12:58 PM


Re: The Bible's veracity
Scripture doesn't only prophecy future events, it also includes a "SCHEDULE" (timeframe) in which these events will occur.
No it doesn't, there's NO prophecy in the bible about future times whatsoever.
The "Economic meltdown" the world is presently experiencing has been prophesied from "Genesis", for our time period.
Really? Care to back that up with a quote from genesis? I seem to remember it being about creation and all, nothing in there about economic collapse.
"IF" you don't understand the scriptures, and what they "Predict",
"HOW" are you going to "PROVE" your "theory"??? (Belief)
Your "belief" is based on an UN-provable "FAITH",
while mine "belief" is based on a "FAITH" that is provable, once the "principles" are understood.
The scriptures also tell us that some "Unbelievers" will still refuse to believe even when faced with hard evidence that is undeniable,
So, evidence to these really doesn't matter, their belief is based on "personal predilection" rather than allowing the "FACTS" of any evidence to speak for it's self.
This is where Bad Science, Bad Judgment, and Atheist originate.
The economic collapse is caused by the "Bank of International Settlement" which owns/control the "Federal Reserve bank", in order to gain control of the world through the "Financing of their Economies",
A "One World Government"..."predicted"....to be in place at the time of the Antichrist arrival, he "TAKES" control of it away from them to establish his dominance over the world.
Of course, this is "predicted" to occur at/very near the "end of time", which is where we are according to the "Schedule" given.
"In a small Swiss city sits an international organization so obscure and secretive....Control of the institution, the Bank for International Settlements, lies with some of the world's most powerful and least visible men: the heads of 32 central banks, officials able to shift billions of dollars and alter the course of economies at the stroke of a pen."
Keith Bradsher of the New York Times, August 5, 1995
"The Federal Reserve Bank of New York is eager to enter into close relationship with the Bank for International Settlements....The conclusion is impossible to escape that the State and Treasury Departments are willing to pool the banking system of Europe and America, setting up a world financial power independent of and above the Government of the United States....The United States under present conditions will be transformed from the most active of manufacturing nations into a consuming and importing nation with a balance of trade against it."
Rep. Louis McFadden - (Chairman of the House Committee on Banking and Currency) quoted in the New York Times (June 1930)
"History shows that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit and violent means possible to maintain control over governments by controlling the money and the issuance of it."
President James A. Madison
"Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce."
President James A. Garfield
Your belief is based on an ignorance of current events and their relationship to prophecies of the scriptures,
"Facts" that are easily seen once the scriptures are understood, and the test results are precisely as "predicted".
Since we live at the "end of time", most porphecies have already been fulfilled, there's still a few left,
"IF" you were presented with a "Fact sheet" detailing Bible prophecies and their time frame, some thousands of years before they occurred, would you still deny the hard evidence???

This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by Huntard, posted 10-08-2008 12:58 PM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
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Me4Him
Junior Member (Idle past 5675 days)
Posts: 19
From: TN
Joined: 10-06-2008


Message 240 of 306 (485446)
10-08-2008 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by Me4Him
10-08-2008 2:37 PM


Re: The Bible's veracity
PaulK
No, it does not. A few books give some indication of a timeframe for some future events (e.g. Daniel places the End Times in the mid-2nd Century BC) but they do not agree and they have all failed.
I really don't think we're are talking about the same thing here,
The scripture deals with the "Spiritual aspects" of man/earth, not the "physical sciences".
Scripture has no record of the "time period" before sin enter the world, so any speculation is just that, speculation.
However, after sin entered, a "time limit" was placed on both man/earth.
This world/universe will evenually "burn", the only important thing about the world to God is the "harvest" (souls) he can reap before it is burned.
And the only important thing to man about the earth "SHOULD BE" the spiritual aspects rather than "physical sciences".
Physical science/knowledge has an "end", therefore it's "Worthless", (hell) however "Spiritual knowledge" can benefit a person for "Eternity". (heaven)
1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God.
1Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God...the world by (it's) wisdom knew not God,
You can't judge Spiritual knowledge (bible) by Physical science/knowledge.
I think we're talking about two different sides of the coin here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by Me4Him, posted 10-08-2008 2:37 PM Me4Him has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 241 by Percy, posted 10-08-2008 3:22 PM Me4Him has replied
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Me4Him
Junior Member (Idle past 5675 days)
Posts: 19
From: TN
Joined: 10-06-2008


Message 242 of 306 (485448)
10-08-2008 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 240 by Me4Him
10-08-2008 3:11 PM


Re: The Bible's veracity
ME4Him
This thread is about the historical evidence (actually, the lack thereof) for Biblical accounts.
Agreed:
And the point I'm making is that some won't accept evidence even though "one rose from the dead",
so, Are they "HONESTLY" seeking evidence of "TRUTH", or confirmation of a belief.
The scripture say not to cast your "Pearls" (words of wisdom) before "Swine", (unbelievers)
The Bible is the world's best "psychology book", we have to be "HONEST" with "OURSELVES" first and recognize the "Swine" that was/is part of all of us before we can get to the "TRUTH".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by Me4Him, posted 10-08-2008 3:11 PM Me4Him has not replied

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Me4Him
Junior Member (Idle past 5675 days)
Posts: 19
From: TN
Joined: 10-06-2008


Message 244 of 306 (485451)
10-08-2008 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 241 by Percy
10-08-2008 3:22 PM


Re: The Bible's veracity
If by this you mean there can be no physical evidence for Biblical knowledge then you shouldn't be posting to this thread.
There's plenty of evidence, but
Unbelief will not accept "ANY" evidence, even "God in the flesh". (Jesus)
Is the search an honest/truthful search???

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Me4Him
Junior Member (Idle past 5675 days)
Posts: 19
From: TN
Joined: 10-06-2008


Message 246 of 306 (485456)
10-08-2008 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 244 by Me4Him
10-08-2008 3:58 PM


Re: The Bible's veracity
Great. So you question other's honesty, and they in turn question yours. Where's that get you?
Why bother to ask for evidence that you've already decided is not valid???
There's no sense in questioning the verscity of scripture unless you're "WILLING" to "Consider" the evidence.
"UNBELIEF" is closing ones eyes/ears to the "TRUTH",
so producing evidence doesn't make any difference,
Under these conditions, what would be the purpose of this thread???

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by Me4Him, posted 10-08-2008 3:58 PM Me4Him has replied

Replies to this message:
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Me4Him
Junior Member (Idle past 5675 days)
Posts: 19
From: TN
Joined: 10-06-2008


Message 250 of 306 (485469)
10-08-2008 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 246 by Me4Him
10-08-2008 4:13 PM


Re: The Bible's veracity
Rahvin
It's rather strange that you claim "there's plenty of evidence" and then don't actually post any. It's also confusing that you don't respond to specific examples, such as my earlier post about the Flood.
I will accept evidence, Me4Him. I don't believe because I haven't been given a reason to believe. I have never seen a single Christian ever put forth any significant amount of evidence to support the extraordinary claims of the Bible. I have never seen any reason to consider the Bible any differently than I consider the Illiad or any other mythological text.
Sorry about that, but I was trying to "keep up" with these other post.
In scripture, "TIME" is only recorded where sin exist, before Adam sinned, there's no record of how long the earth existed, I don't speculate about things the scripture doesn't detail, that's God's department.
God did use the "Creation days" to establish a "pattern" or "Declare the end from the beginning" for the earth after sin entered.
Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done,
You said:
Once again, you're promoting apologetics. Apologetics is the practice of taking an already-held belief as an absolute axiom, and then trying to find "supporting evidence" for that already-held belief. It's basically starting at the ending and then worki
your way back, and it leads to fallacious reasoning. Conclusions must be drawn from evidence, not the other way around. If a position can only be supported if you already believe that position, then it's reasonable to say that there is no objective evi
nce for that position.
How can you test something by assuming it's true from the beginning?
The answer, of course, is that you can't.
As I just showed you, the end was declared from the beginning, so you have it backwards.
Since the end was declared from the beginning, and we live at the end, we have the advantage of "Hindsight" to test the verscity of scripture.
you said:
I will accept evidence, Me4Him. I don't believe because I haven't been given a reason to believe. I have never seen a single Christian ever put forth any significant amount of evidence to support the extraordinary claims of the Bible.
You're welcome to view my webpage, pay particular attention to all the prophecies focusing on our time frame on the second page, then tell me if you believe they are all a "Coincidences".
http://www.daysofgod.com
BB tommorrow.

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 Message 246 by Me4Him, posted 10-08-2008 4:13 PM Me4Him has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Me4Him
Junior Member (Idle past 5675 days)
Posts: 19
From: TN
Joined: 10-06-2008


Message 264 of 306 (485560)
10-09-2008 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 251 by Percy
10-08-2008 5:10 PM


Re: The Bible's veracity
So you'll "BB tommorrow", and when you return could you please refrain from posting to this thread unless it has something to do with extra-Biblical evidence for Biblical accounts, like archeological evidence or writings by ancient historians or anything
else along these lines? Thanks.
"TRUTH" never changes, it's the same today, tommorrow, forever.
Archeological/Evolution theories keep changing as new discoveries are made, evidence the theories are based on "assumptions", not "truth".
This thread questioned the verscity of scriptures based on those Archeological/Evolution theories, I simply made the point,
Judging the verscity of scripture on "Assumptions" which keep changing day to day is "bad science" in anyone's book.
EvC Forum tries to discourage "debate by link" and requires that members make their arguments in their own words with links and other resources used only as references. Plus Biblical prophecies are not extra-Biblical. This thread is seeking corroborativ
evidence for Biblical accounts, not internal Biblical evidence.
The link is mine, my own words,
As they say, "A picture is worth a thousand words".
A farmer plants a "seed" in the earth to become the "Bread" to feed the "Natural man".
God planted a "seed" (Jesus) in the earth to become the "bread" (of life) to feed the "Spiritual man". (soul)
God said the earth would last six days and the seventh day would be a "day of Rest". (millennial reign)
We plan our schedules according to a six day work week, day of rest.
The "Natural light" (Sun) was created on the "fourth day", and according to biblical chronology, the "Spiritual light" (Jesus) came into the world on the "fourth day".
How many have noticed that these "physical patterns" in/of the world are "reflections" of the "Spiritual patterns" in scripture??
You want "extra-Biblical evidence", it's all around you, the whole world is patterned according to something "Spiritual", so much so that no one can correlate the connection between all of them.
Ro 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Personally, I wouldn't attempt to question "God's word" until I first understood it, certainly not on "Asumptions", but then understanding removes any questions about the verscity of his words.
My last post for this thread.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by Percy, posted 10-08-2008 5:10 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
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