Intelligent Design has no Place in the Classroom of Science

The deterministic mechanism by which life somehow evolved from a life spark to single cell life to organ life to multiple organs/body life, and then finally spread to the evolution of millions of creatures has not been proven by scientific methods.While it's very true that ID is not science, evolution as defined above is not science either; and therefore should not be taught in classrooms as science.All ID proponents have ever asked for is that ID be presented as a plausible explanation for how creatures came to be, if the theory of evolution is to be taught. If this cannot or will not be done, then the theory of evolution should be taken out of the science classroom.It's as simple and as difficult as that!This message has been edited by John 10:10, 02-02-2006 03:55 PM

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The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

Yes, I'm new to the forum, and will learn how to respond within the confines of each post discussion.I said what I said to explain if ID has no place in the science classroom as science, neither does the theory of evolution.What evolutionists are doing is changing the definition of how science proves theories are true through actual testing, and now declares evolution is proved through predictions.

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The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

There's a BIG BIG difference between (1) man manipulating the life process of a few creatures in a lab or in a stud farm, and (2) saying this proves how creatures actually evolved over millions of years in times past.The former is science.The latter is and always will be theory.If the best man can do is minipulate/change a few characteristics of a given species, how does one extrapolate that belief into believing/proving that creatures can somehow do a better job all by themselves?This message has been edited by John 10:10, 02-04-2006 12:04 PM

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The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

crashfrog writes,"If the best intelligence can do is change a few aspects of a few species, how does one extrapolate that into a belief that intelligence has created and guided all aspects of all species? "Answer:It makes far better logical since to consider that an Intelligent Designer created all aspects of all species than to consider they could have evolved without an Intelligent Designer.As much as evolutionists now say they have proved evolution to be true according to the definition of true science, we creationists still await this verifible proof that creatures can somehow first design themselves, then completely change their DNA into different species. Randomness and mutation is not proof.

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The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

Listen to what you are saying:"Our DNA and chimps are hugely identical. If you saw two cars with as many identical parts you'd wonder about paying a lot more for one than the other."Yes, the DNA of chimps is about 98.5% the same as mans, but saying the 1.5% difference has somehow been bridged by evolutionary processes is a long long leap. The odds of this difference being bridged by evolutionary processes alone is astronomically high. It is far more logical to consider that chimps and man had the same Designer than to totally eliminate the Designer from the equation."Human intelligence has never created anything close to the interoperating complexity found in nature."Every major increase in man's civilization progress has come about through man's creativeness. When one looks at the wonders of past and present civilizations, one marvels at the creativeness of man's intelligence and gifting that brought these into existance. But the "interoperating complexity found in nature" is so complex that it could not possibly have been designed by a Designer???I rest my case. took out useless subtopic - The QueenThis message has been edited by AdminAsgara, 02-07-2006 08:37 AMThis message has been edited by John 10:10, 02-07-2006 04:40 PM

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The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

Why do evolutionists summarily dismiss the evidence from design without any serious consideration?Professor D.M.S. Watson, zoologist and Chair of Evolution at University College London has given us some insight as to why this is so. He said,"Evolution [is] a theory universally accepted not because it can be proved by logically coherent evidence to be true, but because the only alternative, special creation, is clearly incredible".This of course is an admission that the foundation of evolution is not science, but a rejection of the supernatural. Evolution then is simply the best secular alternative anyone has been able to come up with. This also means that evolution is the only field in science where one decides on the answer first, and then looks for evidence to support that predetermined answer.Allan Sandage, Phd astronomer and co-discoverer of the Quasar, writes,"I find it quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be some organizing principle. God to me is a mystery but is the explanation for the miracle of existance, why there is something instead of nothing."At least Allan Sandage recognizes God is the reason for the miracle of ordered existance. Most evolutionists think as does Thomas Nagel, Professof of Philosophy @ NYU,"I want atheism to be true and am made uneasy by the fact that some of the most intelligent and well-informed people I know are religious believers. It isn't just that I don't believe in God and naturally hope there is no God! I don't want there to be a God; I don't want the universe to be like that."Believing that such incredible design and order comes only from the evolutionary process itself is myopic."Not one example of self-organization or self-generation can be found in the entire realm of nature. In fact, nature shows us just the opposite. Without causation nothing happens and without organization by an intelligent being, systems tend toward lower and lower levels of complexity" (Hugh Ross).All that has been observed in the so-called evolutionary process is what happens when creatures who have been designed with the ability to procreate procreate. If evolutionists want to call this evolutionary proof, they are welcome to say whatever they want. But saying this will never change this belief from theory to fact.It's as simple and as difficult as that.

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The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.Genesis 1:24
Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind"; and it was so.Genesis 1:27
God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.Psalms 19:1
The heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands.Ecclesiastes 3:11
God has made everything appropriate in its time. He has also set eternity in their heart, yet so that man will not find out the work which God has done from the beginning even to the end.All the above references are from the New American Standard Bible.The argument of Intelligent Design of creation and life that exists/existed will never provide sufficient proof to one who looks for scientific proof outside of Divine creation.Blessings

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The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

Even the least sophisticated thing that man builds has to be designed by the best brains that man has; yet the the most sophisticated creature in existance, man himself, somehow came to be without any Designer through chance, mutation, or some other yet to be discovered process. Some logic !!!! This is why Intelligent Design deserves honorable mention along side the Theory of Evolution.Blessings

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The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10

So one wants proof that God exists, created the heavens, the earth, and all life therein."Without faith it is impossible to please God, for he who comes to God must believe that God is and that God is a rewarder of those who seek Him" (Hebrews 11:6).The definition of science is:"Knowledge or a system of knowledge covering general truths or the operation of general laws especially as obtained and tested through the scientific method and concerned with the physical world and its phenomena."When one follows the truth of Hebrews 11;6, God gives proof to those who believe that GOD IS and DILIGENTLY SEEK HIM.Since those who do not believe God exists are also those who have not followed the truth of Hebrews 11:6, how do they know that God does not exist and does not prove Himself to those who diligently seek Him?This message has been edited by AdminJar, 02-10-2006 05:36 PM

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The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10