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Author Topic:   Intelligent Design has no Place in the Classroom of Science
ramoss
Member (Idle past 643 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 28 of 203 (283471)
02-02-2006 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by John 10:10
02-02-2006 3:53 PM


Re: T o p i c !
On the contrary. Evolution IS testable. Evolution makes predictions. Evolution has evidence. While a lot of the evidence is forensic evidence, it makes predictions about what will be found, and it also can make repeatble predictions in the lab.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by John 10:10, posted 02-02-2006 3:53 PM John 10:10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by John 10:10, posted 02-03-2006 12:58 PM ramoss has replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 643 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 30 of 203 (283659)
02-03-2006 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by John 10:10
02-03-2006 12:58 PM


Re: T o p i c !
Except, of course, you are totally mistaken about evolution. It meets the standardns for science.
1) It has evidence for it.
2) It makes predictions that have been demonstrated to occur,
3) It is testable.
4) It explains the available data.
5) It is falsifiable.

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 Message 29 by John 10:10, posted 02-03-2006 12:58 PM John 10:10 has not replied

Replies to this message:
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ramoss
Member (Idle past 643 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 55 of 203 (284573)
02-07-2006 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by John 10:10
02-07-2006 8:46 AM


Every major increase in man's civilization progress has come about through man's creativeness. When one looks at the wonders of past and present civilizations, one marvels at the creativeness of man's intelligence and gifting that brought these into existance. But the "interoperating complexity found in nature" is so complex that it could not possibly have been designed by a Designer???
I rest my case.
There is where you are making a mistake. You are assuming that 'design' must mean a designer. However, you can get the same results as having a designer when you have a self replication with variation, and a filter in place. When it comes to biological evolution, there is the filter of 'natural selection'.
This principle can be demonstrated with computer models that take simple rules for 'reproduction', add variation, and then 'select' for
those that meet a 'survival charactertic' rule. From those simple 'rules', you can get complex shapes that are more 'fit' to accomplish whatever goal you are striving for. IN the case of evoltion, the 'goal' is to reproduce the next generation.

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 643 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 68 of 203 (284718)
02-07-2006 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by robinrohan
02-07-2006 6:09 PM


Re: quote mining for beginners
Not really.
Evolution doesn't care about HOW an organism came into existance. It's total focus is on how the population of that organism will change over time.

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Replies to this message:
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ramoss
Member (Idle past 643 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 83 of 203 (285020)
02-08-2006 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by John 10:10
02-08-2006 1:04 PM


An how does the religious scripture of a bronze age goatherders mean anything when it comes to science?
What is the scientific evidence that this myth has any connection to physical reality?

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 Message 79 by John 10:10, posted 02-08-2006 1:04 PM John 10:10 has not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 643 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 86 of 203 (285162)
02-09-2006 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by John 10:10
02-09-2006 9:47 AM


Re: The nature of the discussion --- again
So, your entire arguemetn FOR "intelligent design' is one of 'personal incrediblity".
Oh, we don't know , so 'God did it'?
How is that science?

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 643 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 123 of 203 (288330)
02-19-2006 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by nwr
02-18-2006 1:52 PM


Re: no currently disproveable
So what potentially can be a test for 'intelligent design'.

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 Message 122 by nwr, posted 02-18-2006 1:52 PM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
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ramoss
Member (Idle past 643 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 125 of 203 (288558)
02-20-2006 7:45 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by nwr
02-19-2006 12:11 PM


Re: no currently disproveable
Then, you will agree then, since it is philophy it has no business being taught as science.

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Replies to this message:
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ramoss
Member (Idle past 643 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 143 of 203 (291293)
03-01-2006 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by inkorrekt
03-01-2006 3:32 PM


Re: oh boy!
How does expertise of a geophsysist matter when it comes to biological evolution?
As for that biology teacher.. let us look at the place he teaches.
From the 'about us' section of the college he teaches at
HISTORY: Associated with the Christian Reformed Church, Dordt College was founded in 1955 and today welcomes all students who are interested in a biblical, Christ-centered education.
and from their 'our philosphy' section
The Dordt College community confesses that the Scriptures are the Word of God. As God’s infallibly and authoritatively inspired revelation, the Bible reveals the way of salvation in Jesus Christ, requires a life of obedience to the Lord, and provides the key to understanding, interpreting, and finding purpose in life.
So, you have one scientist who is making comments about an area of study that is not his field, and the other one is a teacher in a college that proclaims that the bible is the infallible word of god.
Is that the best you can do? An appeal to authority for one, and the other one has an obvious religius axe to grind.

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 643 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 170 of 203 (292643)
03-06-2006 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 169 by ReverendDG
03-05-2006 11:13 PM


Re: oh boy!
I think the point is that Intelligent Design doesn't explain anything on it's own. It has no evidence for it. It has no predictive powers. It is a statement of faith by some believers who want to believe that 'God did it'.
It's entire scientific existance is based on attacking evolution, usually a strawman of evolution. For example, the insistnace that
a 'missing link' has to be produced shows that there is a lack of understanding of that 'missing links' are merely a media term, since
all fossils are transitional (unless the whole family went extinct).
When a transitional fossil is found between two other types of forms, that isn't a 'missing link' in the eyes of the creationist, .. but it makes two more 'gaps' where they insist on knowing what the missing link is.
If/when 'I.D.' can come up with evidence FOR it's hypothesis, rather than rely on 'Gee, it's too complicated for me to understand, it must be god', and for them to get out of the politics, stop worrying about attacking evolution, and get it's OWN science in place, then it can be considered. Until it has more than politcs and attacks on evolution, it is not science.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by ReverendDG, posted 03-05-2006 11:13 PM ReverendDG has replied

Replies to this message:
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