Intelligent Design has no Place in the Classroom of Science

Welcome to EvC, inkorrekt.Interesting post, but it is off-topic for this particular thread. Here, we like to confine individual threads as much as possible to a single topic. This thread is about whether Intelligent Design is science and so should be allowed in a public school curriculum.

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I am trying to find out any valid proof for Evolution. I have not heard from anyone. They always attack me for questioning Evolution. It is simple. When there is no answer, then attack the messenger. The questions will not go away. They will always come back.

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Actually, these questions have been asked before, and have been answered. Why don't you find threads devoted to these topics, or start your own, and ask them? You'll find that there are answers to them.

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"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

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It makes far better logical since to consider that an Intelligent Designer created all aspects of all species than to consider they could have evolved without an Intelligent Designer.

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Aw-right! I have some mathematical training, and so logic is kind of my thing. Why don't you explain your logic to us?

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"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

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The odds of this difference being bridged by evolutionart processes alone is astronomically high.

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Based on what calculations? took out useless subtopic - The QueenThis message has been edited by AdminAsgara, 02-07-2006 08:36 AM

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"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

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Why do evolutionists summarily dismiss the evidence from design without any serious consideration?

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Why do creationists/IDists repeatedly fail to provide this evidence, and instead rely on out-of-context quotes from a few scientists as if it makes up for the lack of evidence for their position?

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"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

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The argument of Intelligent Design of creation and life that exists/existed will never provide sufficient proof to one who looks for scientific proof outside of Divine creation.

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Nor will any amount of clear evidence and precise logic ever be convincing to someone who is determined to hold onto his favored mythology.Cheers.

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"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

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So one wants proof that God exists, created the heavens, the earth, and all life therein.

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Although it would be nice to have proof one way or the other concerning the existence of God, that is not what this thread is about.This thread is meant to explore the question:Is there reliable evidence that an intelligent, conscious "designer" is responsible for some or all of the features we see in living species?Added by edit:Oops. I responded before I say the big red "DO NOT RESPOND" sign.This message has been edited by Chiroptera, 10-Feb-2006 11:39 PM

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"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

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Well, the foundation of biology is orgin of life.

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Actually, the "foundation" of biology, like all of the sciences, is the here-and-now. The "foundation" of biology and evolution is how well the theories describe life in all of its diversity.

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"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

I have asked for logic, and I have got it. Or at least a sad empty facade masquerading as logic. Let's examine this:

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But, I have heard from few Biophysicists that Evolution cannot be substantiated by mathematics.

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Very few biophysicists, in fact.-

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Chemical evolution is a statistical improbability.

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This is false. The exact conditions under which the origin of life occurred are still a matter of investigation, therefore it is not possible to produce an accurate mathematical model of the process by which the first imperfectly replicating systems first arose and then evolved into the first cells. Therefore, it is not possible to determine how probably or improbable the process is.-

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If chemical evolution is impossible....

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Whoops. Changing "improbable" into "impossible".-

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...how can biological evolution occur?

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Nonsequitur. Biological evolution only needs the existence of life. Life may have always existed, life may have arisen through very probable and simple abiotic processes on the early earth, life may have arisen through very "improbable chemical evolution" processes, or life may have been created ex nihilo by a "intelligent designer". But life certainly does exist, it certainly has existed for several billion years, and it has evolved from simple protozoan precursors into the diversity we see today.-

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Neither Creation Nor Evolution can be proved.

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Perhaps, but evolution has certainly been shown to be the very likely process that produced the current biosphere in which we live. Perhaps evolution did not happen, and the earth was created only 6000 years ago; in that case, the trickster demiurge that did the creating also created an earth with every appearance of being several billions of years old and a very well documented history. A possibility, yes, but how reasonable is this?-

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Therefore, we must admit to the students that at present there is no definite answer for the question, how life came into existence.

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No definite answer as yet, true. But as research continues in the field, scientists are reaching greater understanding about the processes that gave rise to the first living cells three and a half billion years ago.-

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Let the students find out the answer.

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People are trying to educate students to understand the science, but creationists and IDists keep trying to muddy the waters with elements of their particularly lame creation myths.

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"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

Nonsensical and not particularly relevant to the question at hand. This is a thread about whether or not we want to teach intelligent design in the public schools. If you have good reasons to do so despite the lack of any evidence whatsoever that intelligent design is found in biological systems, then you may explain your reasoning.

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"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

Who's calling names? I am merely pointing out that your question is irrelevant to the topic at hand, serves no purpose on this particular thread, and is, in the context of this thread, nonsense.On the other hand, it might be an interesting question in the appropriate place.

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"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

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Dr.Stephen Cheesman,Ph.D is a geophysicist and a software developer. This is what he says about DNA....

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Heh. As ramoss asked: why should I take his opinion seriously? Especially since he is comparing the product of eons of incremental improvements with what he cannot do in a single afternoon, all at once?

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"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

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What does God say?

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Since God does not exist, he doesn't say a whole heck of a lot.But that is off-topic. What is on topic is what evidence is there for the existence of intelligent design in naturally occurring biological systems? So far your sole evidence is, "Gosh, I and other people cannot believe that this could not have been designed!"Or perhaps you agree that there is no evidence for the existence of "intelligent design" in naturally occurring systems. In that case, why should it be taught in a public school biology class?

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"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

What in the world does this have to do with the topic?Should one be allowed to teach ID in the classroom? Why or why not?

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"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

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The point of science is not the truth, its what we observe as true.

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Nicely put. Did you come up with it?

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"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

If you want to know why this is, then we have a special thread in which we can discuss moderator actions. The moderators might be able to explain why you get warnings and ReverendDG does not (in, indeed, that is the case).

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"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt