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Author
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Topic: Does Darwinism Equal "No God"?
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 11 of 298 (270014)
12-16-2005 12:14 PM
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Reply to: Message 1 by randman
12-15-2005 4:13 PM
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Secondly, using the theory of evolution to assert atheism, that there is no Designer or Creator as these 2 leading evolutionists insist, really giants in the field, is a fundamental misuse of science, and imo, shows a total ignorance of what science is. How does saying there is no designer assert atheism? Please provide the quote from the transcript where they said there was no creator.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by randman, posted 12-15-2005 4:13 PM | | randman has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 18 of 298 (270032)
12-16-2005 12:36 PM
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Reply to: Message 14 by randman
12-16-2005 12:21 PM
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Re: divine hand-holding?
As a Christian, when speaking of life (which is the subject Darwin was addressing) I would say there is no designer. To imply otherwise would make GOD totally incompetent. I do not see how such a statement can be considered as Atheistic.
By claiming there is no Designer, they are asserting that a Designer could not have planned for evolution to be the agent for forming lifee. If GOD planned evolution as the method, then what is the problem of saying there is no designer? The results of a designer who uses random mutations and natural selection will be indistinguishable from evolution without the designer.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 14 by randman, posted 12-16-2005 12:21 PM | | randman has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 19 by randman, posted 12-16-2005 12:47 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 20 of 298 (270036)
12-16-2005 12:48 PM
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Reply to: Message 19 by randman
12-16-2005 12:47 PM
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Re: divine hand-holding?
Who cares?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 19 by randman, posted 12-16-2005 12:47 PM | | randman has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 22 of 298 (270040)
12-16-2005 1:00 PM
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Reply to: Message 21 by randman
12-16-2005 12:54 PM
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Re: divine hand-holding?
Btw, you always like to bring up the fact you are a Christian, but that is a vague term. Without some details, it's somewhat meaningless. Do you believe, for example, in life after death? In a consciousness that survives outside the body? How about believing the idea that Jesus rose from the dead and lives today? Or that he and others did miracles, etc,...? I don't want to get the thread off-track so a quick answer will do, just to clarify a little what you mean by "Christian"? You are right, that's off topic.
If they were planned for, they are not totally random. Who cares. If you can't tell the difference it doesn't matter.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 21 by randman, posted 12-16-2005 12:54 PM | | randman has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 26 by randman, posted 12-16-2005 1:33 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 27 of 298 (270050)
12-16-2005 1:46 PM
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Reply to: Message 26 by randman
12-16-2005 1:33 PM
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Re: divine hand-holding?
One more tidbit. If you are not willing to qualify in what way you are a Christian and thus support your point, maybe you should quit stating that on science threads. As a Christian it is my Christian duty to point out when you and other Christians spout bad science and even worse theology. There are more than enough threads at EvC where I have posted for folk to examine my theological views.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 26 by randman, posted 12-16-2005 1:33 PM | | randman has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 31 by randman, posted 12-16-2005 1:53 PM | | jar has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 35 of 298 (270060)
12-16-2005 2:08 PM
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Reply to: Message 34 by randman
12-16-2005 2:00 PM
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Back on topic, as if there ever was one. LOL
Back on topic, does it not strike anyone that claiming Darwin's contribution was that there was no Designer is inserting religious, or anti-religious dogma into the debate. No, of course not. It is simply the result of observation.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 34 by randman, posted 12-16-2005 2:00 PM | | randman has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 37 of 298 (270063)
12-16-2005 2:29 PM
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Reply to: Message 34 by randman
12-16-2005 2:00 PM
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Re: Off topic and out of line
Btw, I initially just ignored his first post for the very reason I suspected it would not lead anywhere fruitful. The title of the thread is "Does Darwinism Equal "No God"?" Please respond to the two questions in Message 11 which are directly related to the topic and the specific interview under discussion. How does saying there is no designer assert atheism? Please provide the quote from the transcript where they said there was no creator.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 34 by randman, posted 12-16-2005 2:00 PM | | randman has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 39 by randman, posted 12-16-2005 2:36 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 41 of 298 (270068)
12-16-2005 2:44 PM
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Reply to: Message 39 by randman
12-16-2005 2:36 PM
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Very much on topic
The point is these guys thought the significance of Darwin is to assert that God did not originate and plan for life on earth. Please point out where that was stated.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 39 by randman, posted 12-16-2005 2:36 PM | | randman has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 42 by Percy, posted 12-16-2005 2:47 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 43 of 298 (270075)
12-16-2005 2:51 PM
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Reply to: Message 42 by Percy
12-16-2005 2:47 PM
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Re: Very much on topic
I watched it the first time through. Unfortunately I will be working during the replay. But it was a great, wonderful and inspirational discussion that I recommend to anyone. Charlie Rose is a refreshing breeze when compared to the irrationality found in the moronic mutterings of FOX News.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 42 by Percy, posted 12-16-2005 2:47 PM | | Percy has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 48 by randman, posted 12-16-2005 3:26 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 54 of 298 (270155)
12-16-2005 6:46 PM
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Reply to: Message 48 by randman
12-16-2005 3:26 PM
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Re: Very much on topic
Still waiting for answers to the questions asked in Message 11 and Message 37. How does saying there is no designer assert atheism? Please provide the quote from the transcript where they said there was no creator.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 48 by randman, posted 12-16-2005 3:26 PM | | randman has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 55 by NosyNed, posted 12-16-2005 6:57 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 56 of 298 (270158)
12-16-2005 7:03 PM
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Reply to: Message 55 by NosyNed
12-16-2005 6:57 PM
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Re: What they said....
But it wouldn't surprise me if they asserted that there is no creator. I have read material of Wilson's critical of religion (IIRC) so he may have made that leap. Wouldn't surprise me either. But I watched the program and don't remember him making that assertion. He did say that looking at the evidence there is no signs of a designer, and that would be something that even as a Chritian Creationist I would fully support. But the topic of this thread is "Does Darwinism Equal "No God"?" The answer to that is an absolute and unequivacal "No, it does not." No other answer is even possible.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 55 by NosyNed, posted 12-16-2005 6:57 PM | | NosyNed has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 94 of 298 (270492)
12-18-2005 12:53 PM
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Reply to: Message 84 by randman
12-17-2005 8:48 PM
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Re: What the evolutionary explanation is....
I commend you for having the courage to admit these guy's stance here, something few others have been willing to do, but shouldn't their stance just be admitted to up-front. No one has questioned what their stance is, it's your personal interpretation of what that means that's in question. You titled the thread Does Darwinism Equal "No God"? The answer to that is a resounding, absolute and indisputable, No! The existance of the Clergy Project is absolute proof of that. And I am still waiting for you to answer the two question (think this is the fourth or fifth time now) from Message 11 In case you forgot them here they are again. How does saying there is no designer assert atheism? Please provide the quote from the transcript where they said there was no creator.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 84 by randman, posted 12-17-2005 8:48 PM | | randman has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 95 by Percy, posted 12-18-2005 1:45 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 96 of 298 (270506)
12-18-2005 1:53 PM
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Reply to: Message 95 by Percy
12-18-2005 1:45 PM
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Re: What the evolutionary explanation is....
This is the key ambiguity behind what Watson and Wilson were saying, and I think this is the point you're trying to get Randman to see. Correct. That is the cux. I do not doubt for a second that Aethists belive there is no God and that they could well use the TOE as one of their basic supporting arguments. But... that is their opinion. There is also a large body of Christians that do believe there is a GOD and see no conflict with the TOE. It is not Darwanism that leads to the conclusion that there is no God.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 95 by Percy, posted 12-18-2005 1:45 PM | | Percy has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 102 by randman, posted 12-18-2005 2:27 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 104 of 298 (270527)
12-18-2005 3:06 PM
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Reply to: Message 102 by randman
12-18-2005 2:27 PM
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As usual, randman fails to address questions and just tries to change the subject.
I think these 2 guys are asserting exactly that the significance of Darwinism is that there is no God (Designer). Okay. What's your point? They may well believe that. Who cares? It's their belief? Fine. What does that have to do with the topic of this thread? When will you answer th questions asked in Message 11 and that have been repeated numerous times throughout this thread? Why do you keep trying to change the subject? In case you have forgotten them, here they are yet again. How does saying there is no designer assert atheism? Please provide the quote from the transcript where they said there was no creator.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 102 by randman, posted 12-18-2005 2:27 PM | | randman has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 118 of 298 (270740)
12-19-2005 11:16 AM
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Reply to: Message 100 by randman
12-18-2005 2:19 PM
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Re: What the evolutionary explanation is....
That't what THEY SAID; the significance of Darwin was, to assert no designer, and in the context of the whole discussion, it was pretty clear they meant no Creator, no God, that life's formation as independent of any divine guidance. Good, then it should be easy for you to answer the questions first asked back in Message 11. In case you have forgotten them or failed to read them in one of the many, many times in this thread where they have been repeated, here they are once more. How does saying there is no designer assert atheism? Please provide the quote from the transcript where they said there was no creator.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 100 by randman, posted 12-18-2005 2:19 PM | | randman has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 119 by randman, posted 12-19-2005 1:34 PM | | jar has replied |
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