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Author Topic:   When Fascism Comes To America
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9533
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


(4)
Message 286 of 303 (911273)
06-22-2023 6:45 AM
Reply to: Message 285 by Phat
06-22-2023 6:11 AM


Re: I see shoplifting in real time
Phat writes:
You liberal whiners will coddle the criminals and somehow blame the Republicans, but you likely would not be in favor of better security.
Who's doing the whining here? Will you ever quit being a dick? The company will use whatever methods to reduce the loss that makes commercial sense to them. It's their business not yours. You voted for right-wing, look-after-yourself capitalism - here it is at work in your store. And here's you crying for help from the big state.
You tell us you're a Christian (ha!), why aren't you doing something about the root cause of crime - drug and alcohol abuse, homelessness, poverty and depravation, education and inequality of wealth? Why aren't you feeding the hungry, housing the homeless tending to the sick?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by Phat, posted 06-22-2023 6:11 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 287 by Theodoric, posted 06-22-2023 7:49 AM Tangle has not replied
 Message 288 by Phat, posted 06-22-2023 12:08 PM Tangle has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 287 of 303 (911275)
06-22-2023 7:49 AM
Reply to: Message 286 by Tangle
06-22-2023 6:45 AM


Re: I see shoplifting in real time
The cognitive dissonance in that one post sums up the full extent of his ignorance and inhumanity.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by Tangle, posted 06-22-2023 6:45 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 288 of 303 (911276)
06-22-2023 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 286 by Tangle
06-22-2023 6:45 AM


Re: I see shoplifting in real time
First lets get one thing straight here! I NEVER voted for Donald Trump. Thanks to my sister I ended up voting for Biden and now regret it.
Tangle writes:
The company will use whatever methods to reduce the loss that makes commercial sense to them. It's their business not yours. You voted for right-wing, look-after-yourself capitalism - here it is at work in your store. And here's you crying for help from the big state.
Whose job is it to serve and protect? At work, they hire private security...likely another tax write off or way to lower the insurance.
ou tell us you're a Christian (ha!), why aren't you doing something about the root cause of crime - drug and alcohol abuse, homelessness, poverty and depravation, education and inequality of wealth? Why aren't you feeding the hungry, housing the homeless tending to the sick?
I do all of those things, though im not gonna simply help people by voting progressive. Giving a thief a house does not stop them from stealing. The rest of the homeless...most who are not thieves, can benefit.
You guys portray me as selfish and unchristian which is my fault, I suppose. There are many opportunities to share the gospel in an unobtrusive way and I do take advantage of my verbal skills in my work environment. You people think that all the world needs is a good government. You will be surprised.
Thats another topic, however. Im not here to praise right wing authoritarianism. Too far left or too far right causes problems either way.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by Tangle, posted 06-22-2023 6:45 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 289 by Tangle, posted 06-22-2023 12:48 PM Phat has replied
 Message 290 by nwr, posted 06-22-2023 2:37 PM Phat has replied
 Message 291 by Theodoric, posted 06-22-2023 8:25 PM Phat has replied
 Message 300 by Percy, posted 06-25-2023 5:11 PM Phat has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9533
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 289 of 303 (911277)
06-22-2023 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 288 by Phat
06-22-2023 12:08 PM


Re: I see shoplifting in real time
Phat writes:
Whose job is it to serve and protect?
I'm sure they'd be more than happy to protect every supermarket in the US 24x7, all you need to do is fund the increase. Are you going to vote for the increased taxation?
At work, they hire private security...likely another tax write off or way to lower the insurance.
Don't be ridiculous, it's a straightforward cost of business; they're balancing 'shrinkage' against the cost of reducing it. It goes straight to the bottom line.
But it's impossible to stop the kind of shoplifting you're seeing - if people are poor, hungry, homeless and drug addicted, you have to deal with the cause.
You can't solve these societal problems by locking people up. Are you proud of these numbers and the company you keep?
Top 10 Countries with the most people in prison
United States — 2,068,800
China — 1,690,000
Brazil — 811,707
India — 478,600
Russia — 471,490
Thailand — 309,282
Turkey — 291,198
Indonesia — 266,259
Mexico — 220,866
Iran — 189,000
Top 10 Countries with the highest rate of incarceration
United States — 629
Rwanda — 580
Turkmenistan — 576
El Salvador — 564
Cuba — 510
Palau — 478
British Virgin Islands (U.K. territory) — 477
Thailand — 445
Panama — 423
Saint Kitts and Nevis — 423

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by Phat, posted 06-22-2023 12:08 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 293 by Phat, posted 06-22-2023 9:37 PM Tangle has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6421
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 290 of 303 (911278)
06-22-2023 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 288 by Phat
06-22-2023 12:08 PM


Re: I see shoplifting in real time
Phat in Message 288 writes:
Giving a thief a house does not stop them from stealing.
I'm a thief. What are you going to do about it?
I had eggs for dinner last night, and they were stolen from chickens. Okay, that makes me a receiver of stolen goods rather than a thief.
You probably don't think of that as theft or as fencing. That's because our laws don't consider it theft.
The point I am trying to make, is that what makes an action a theft depends on the traditions of culture.
Some Americans have been excluded from normal participation in our culture due to racism or due to other forms of discrimination. What should they do? Do you think they should voluntarily starve to death? Or should they find other ways of getting food?
There would be a lot less shoplifting if there weren't people who are forced to find other ways of getting food.

--> -->Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity <-- <--

This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by Phat, posted 06-22-2023 12:08 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 296 by Phat, posted 06-23-2023 8:28 AM nwr has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 291 of 303 (911283)
06-22-2023 8:25 PM
Reply to: Message 288 by Phat
06-22-2023 12:08 PM


Re: I see shoplifting in real time
Do you even know what a tax write off is?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by Phat, posted 06-22-2023 12:08 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 292 by Phat, posted 06-22-2023 9:13 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 292 of 303 (911284)
06-22-2023 9:13 PM
Reply to: Message 291 by Theodoric
06-22-2023 8:25 PM


Re: I see shoplifting in real time
Theo writes:
Do you even know what a tax write off is?
In some ways, I think that Cerberus wants the company to fail so that they can recoup the losses on their taxes and simply close the place.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 291 by Theodoric, posted 06-22-2023 8:25 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 294 by Theodoric, posted 06-22-2023 10:35 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 293 of 303 (911285)
06-22-2023 9:37 PM
Reply to: Message 289 by Tangle
06-22-2023 12:48 PM


Re: I see shoplifting in real time
nwr writes:
if people are poor, hungry, homeless and drug addicted, you have to deal with the cause.
Perhaps you could explain the cause briefly. You then could explain why people used to work hard for next to nothing in the Great Depression whereas now they would rather steal. Am I ashamed of the US? People these days seem to have lost the character that made the Greatest Generation (WWII) live up to its name.
I remember jar used to say that
1) We will get the nation we want.
2) The bill will get paid.
3) Americans will someday make great servants for the wealthy foreigners.
And when he said that it annoyed the heck out of me.
It seems like this debt stuff all started with Reagan.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 289 by Tangle, posted 06-22-2023 12:48 PM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 295 by Theodoric, posted 06-22-2023 10:38 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 294 of 303 (911286)
06-22-2023 10:35 PM
Reply to: Message 292 by Phat
06-22-2023 9:13 PM


Re: I see shoplifting in real time
I take that as a no. A tax write off is still an expense the company must pay for.. It is not free money.
You should never spout about finance and economics until you learn basics.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 292 by Phat, posted 06-22-2023 9:13 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


(2)
Message 295 of 303 (911287)
06-22-2023 10:38 PM
Reply to: Message 293 by Phat
06-22-2023 9:37 PM


Re: I see shoplifting in real time
People stole in the great depression. The poor died in large numbers. Children were sold.
Yeah, the good old days when the poor knew their place. You are a disgusting, vile person. Classic christian.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 293 by Phat, posted 06-22-2023 9:37 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 296 of 303 (911292)
06-23-2023 8:28 AM
Reply to: Message 290 by nwr
06-22-2023 2:37 PM


Re: I see shoplifting in real time
They need to first get off drugs. Next, they need to quit stealing. The other ways that they can adapt include working and doing things the legal way.
There would be a lot less shoplifting if there weren't people who are forced to find other ways of getting food.
I call bullshit. Nobody is forced to break the law. This isnt a third world country. We have many food banks and ways to survive. The problem with shoplifters is that they want to live as good as I do. Yet they refuse to work as hard. They want solutions handed to them. Frustrated, they take enough stuff (from the rest of us, indirectly) to have their mythical lifestyle to which they think they are entitled.
You all scold me for thinking I am entitled, so perhaps it is my destiny to join them.
Sometimes I think it is my destiny to die and get out of the way.
I'm not as strong as the street people...even the addicts. If there is anyone left in this forum that prays, pray for me that I will develop empathy rather than hatred.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 290 by nwr, posted 06-22-2023 2:37 PM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 297 by nwr, posted 06-23-2023 8:46 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 298 by Theodoric, posted 06-23-2023 2:26 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6421
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


(2)
Message 297 of 303 (911295)
06-23-2023 8:46 AM
Reply to: Message 296 by Phat
06-23-2023 8:28 AM


Re: I see shoplifting in real time
Phat in Message 296 writes:
Yet they refuse to work as hard. They want solutions handed to them. Frustrated, they take enough stuff (from the rest of us, indirectly) to have their mythical lifestyle to which they think they are entitled.
You aimed that criticism at shoplifters. But it is a near perfect description of billionaires, who enrich themselves by exploiting others.
You see the shoplifters as breaking the law (and indeed, they are). If the billionaires are not breaking the law, that is only because they have been able to manipulate what the laws are.

--> -->Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity <-- <--

This message is a reply to:
 Message 296 by Phat, posted 06-23-2023 8:28 AM Phat has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 298 of 303 (911302)
06-23-2023 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 296 by Phat
06-23-2023 8:28 AM


Re: I see shoplifting in real time
Don't care. Hate. Go off the deep end. You have burned any bridges with your hate, racism and idiocy. Rot for all I care. I have reached out with a friendly hand and have had it snapped at.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 296 by Phat, posted 06-23-2023 8:28 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22622
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.7


(2)
Message 299 of 303 (911318)
06-25-2023 12:42 AM
Reply to: Message 285 by Phat
06-22-2023 6:11 AM


Re: I see shoplifting in real time
What I was hoping you would address, and what you didn't touch on at all, were the positions you took and the accusations you made over in the The Discipline of Conservative Christian Children thread, like this:
Phat writes:
I challenge godless authority because I mistrust progressive intentions. They seek to control my money and force me to give mandatorily my share as determined by them.
And this:
By authority, I meant a populist globalist-leaning government whose military-industrial complex feeds the wars for the stated purpose of improving a lot of humanity but whose agenda leaves the United States itself with a declining middle class, a growing nation of shoplifters and thieves, crumbling infrastructure and ever-growing inflation while we pump money overseas to defend democracy for the rest of the world. I won't see any jail time for that, any more than the shoplifters will after a defunded police have no teeth left to hold them accountable.
And now in this thread you've just added to it with this:
Right now, the pendulum is swung so far to the left that we have police doing absolutely nothing to stop these assaults on businesses.
...
You liberal whiners will coddle the criminals and somehow blame the Republicans, but you likely would not be in favor of better security.
You should provide support for your claims. How are progressives associated with godless authority? By what means are they trying to control your money? Why do you blame progressives for the amounts of government taxes and fees when both parties are deeply involved in tax policy? Why do you say it is the progressives' military industrial complex, and that they're leveraging it to improve humanity, presumably in their own mold? Why do you blame progressives for a declining middle class? Why do you think crime is increasing when property crime is down and violent crime is holding steady over the past 30 years? How is crumbling infrastructure the fault of any particular political group? How do you still not understand that "defund the police" is just a slogan and does not mean to unfund them but to give the funds for non-police functions like wellness checks and traffic safety and so forth to more appropriate departments? Why do you think inflation, a world-wide post-covid phenomenon which the US is weathering better than most of the rest of the world, is somehow the fault of US progressives? Why do you think what you think you observe in your little part of the world is what's happening everywhere across the US?
What I think is that you're still watching too many YouTube videos. Those YouTube guys know how to rile you up, but it's apparent that they don't know how to provide any facts. They just want you worried as hell that things are falling apart so that you'll put your money into the only safe refuge, precious metals, better hurry while supplies last. Please stop listening to these guys. It's rotting your brain.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by Phat, posted 06-22-2023 6:11 AM Phat has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22622
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 300 of 303 (911321)
06-25-2023 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 288 by Phat
06-22-2023 12:08 PM


Re: I see shoplifting in real time
Phat writes:
First lets get one thing straight here! I NEVER voted for Donald Trump. Thanks to my sister I ended up voting for Biden and now regret it.
Unless you believe the lies Trump is telling, or others in the MAGA crew, Biden hasn't done anything that should cause you regret. You say you would never vote for Trump, yet most of what you say aligns with his lies pretty well.
I do all of those things, though I'm not gonna simply help people by voting progressive.
When the people around you have better lives, your life becomes better, too.
Giving a thief a house does not stop them from stealing. The rest of the homeless...most who are not thieves, can benefit.
Feeding and housing desperate people who steal to live *does* greatly reduce their need to steal. Government programs that reduce poverty and homelessness and hunger reduce crime.
You guys portray me as selfish and unchristian which is my fault, I suppose.
Uh, yeah, your fault entirely. We're just going by what you say. We didn't all get together in a secret meeting and say, "Hey, let's just out of blue start accusing Phat of being an uncaring, selfish racist." All we did was listen to your words.
There are many opportunities to share the gospel in an unobtrusive way and I do take advantage of my verbal skills in my work environment.
Your views are the antithesis of Jesus'. Like too many Christians, you have given up all moral authority for spreading his teachings.
You people think that all the world needs is a good government. You will be surprised.
What we actually think is that government that does good makes the world a better place.
Thats another topic, however. I'm not here to praise right wing authoritarianism.
Then stop doing it.
Too far left or too far right causes problems either way.
I hope all of us favor those who have the best interests of the people and the country at heart. If you're not really a right wing nut then stop talking like one. You could start by displaying a little sympathy for the desperate people stealing from your store.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by Phat, posted 06-22-2023 12:08 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 301 by Phat, posted 06-26-2023 1:14 PM Percy has replied

  
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