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Author Topic:   When Fascism Comes To America
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(4)
Message 139 of 303 (908163)
03-09-2023 7:24 AM
Reply to: Message 137 by Phat
03-08-2023 8:40 PM


Re: Tax The Working & Save The Planet
Phat writes:
Yeah I do. We are all about to have a prayer meeting at the church and cast the spirit of wokeness out of the government and the people. Care to join us?
Don't forget your torches and pitchforks.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by Phat, posted 03-08-2023 8:40 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by Omnivorous, posted 03-09-2023 8:26 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 141 by Phat, posted 03-09-2023 8:50 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(2)
Message 210 of 303 (908735)
03-20-2023 8:26 AM
Reply to: Message 209 by Tangle
03-20-2023 4:33 AM


Re: Ex-Spurts: Drips Under Pressure
Tangle writes:
Do you feel well?
He's in the euphoric stage.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by Tangle, posted 03-20-2023 4:33 AM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 211 by Theodoric, posted 03-20-2023 9:08 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 215 of 303 (908802)
03-20-2023 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by Phat
03-20-2023 1:05 PM


Re: Grinding America Down
Phat writes:
Taq writes:
Can you name one economy that is on the rails, just so we have something to compare to?
You bring up a good point. Global debt is over 100 trillion dollars. Modern Monetary Theory seems to think that it is no big deal. It takes no Rocket Scientist to question their conclusions!
Wiki:
Modern Monetary Theory or Modern Money Theory is a heterodox macroeconomic theory that describes currency as a public monopoly and unemployment as evidence that a currency monopolist is overly restricting the supply of the financial assets needed to pay taxes and satisfy savings desires.
I haven't followed the discussion closely, but I think it's possible that with the exception of PaulK that no one understood that when you introduced the term Modern Monetary Theory that you were talking about a specific thing and not just referring to the modern theory of money (e.g., fiat currencies, your usual target) in another way. You invited this confusion yourself by not defining the term until just now, instead just providing a link to the Wikipedia article.
That same article indicates the theory isn't "mainstream" and "has been criticized heavily by many mainstream economists," which as PaulK noted doesn't sound like it has had much sway, and he asked how you can blame a theory that hasn't been adopted to any significant extent.
But that Wikipedia characterization you quoted, if you ignore the provocative terminology and framing, sounds like plain old mainstream macroeconomic theory, and in the second paragraph Wikipedia says that the extent to which it actually differs from "orthodox macroeconomics" is debated. I don't think it's worth focusing much attention on Modern Monetary Theory.
If money belonged to all of us, we all would have equal stake in "it". Which is patently unfair. Why should the guy passed out under the park bench have an equal share with the hardworking father or mother who holds down 3 jobs?
I'm unable to make any sense of this.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by Phat, posted 03-20-2023 1:05 PM Phat has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(2)
Message 235 of 303 (909344)
04-01-2023 7:20 AM
Reply to: Message 231 by Phat
03-31-2023 8:38 PM


Re: Grinding America Down
Phat writes:
For starters, read what Biden himself says.
Bidens remarks
You completely failed to include any content of your own:
  1. Points should be supported with evidence and reasoned argumentation. Address rebuttals through the introduction of additional evidence or by enlarging upon the argument. Do not repeat previous points without further elaboration. Avoid bare assertions.
  2. Bare links with no supporting discussion should be avoided. Make the argument in your own words and use links as supporting references.
Here is my response, edited to be commensurate with the amount of your own content:
...
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 231 by Phat, posted 03-31-2023 8:38 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 236 by xongsmith, posted 04-01-2023 7:55 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(4)
Message 260 of 303 (910900)
05-24-2023 8:28 PM
Reply to: Message 250 by Phat
05-23-2023 7:29 AM


Re: In Brief:
Phat writes:
Tanypteryx writes:
Which country looks like it is behaving like a world leader?
Both the US and China are behaving like leaders within their respective domains.
I'm not sure what you think "behaving like leaders" entails, but it doesn't sound like something many countries live up to most of the time.
In the meantime, the whole concept of spending, controlling, and using money to finance global goals is changing. With the rise and eventual implementation of CDDC's,(Central Bank Digital Currencies) the direct control of money is switching from wealthy individuals to the power of government.
I can hear the echos of the gold standard in the background.
This concerns Conservatives more so than Liberals because Liberals favor bigger government. It is, to them, the only obvious solution to counter the power of wealthy cartels and private equity firms.
You are listening to someone's conspiracy theories again. It is not anything as simplistic as liberals favor bigger government and conservatives smaller. Much closer to the truth would be to say that liberals believe government can be a force for social and economic good, while conservatives believe that government governs best that govern least. Depending upon their goals of the moment, both philosophies are capable of growing or shrinking government, and have.
Phrases like "it was said" and "some say" are dead giveaways that what follows are baseless assertions. You know what people actually say? That you have an aversion to facts and a weakness for slick videos. Or even for bad videos, for that matter.
With the advent of CDBC's, nobody can operate apart from the central system.
You don't know what a CDBC is. They work just like your bank. With your bank you can withdraw physical money in person, or just use the app on your phone. The Federal Reserve used to have only pysical money, but now they have CDBC's, too, making it possible to withdraw money digitally from the Federal Reserve, say for a bond that matures.
CDBC do not replace banks or physical money. They're just a way for people to access money at the Federal Reserve digitally. That's it.
Please, please, please, stop listening to the nuts on YouTube.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by Phat, posted 05-23-2023 7:29 AM Phat has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(3)
Message 261 of 303 (910901)
05-24-2023 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 253 by Phat
05-23-2023 3:36 PM


Re: In Brief:
Phat writes:
Theodoric writes:
Phat writes:
With the rise and eventual implementation of CDDC's,(Central Bank Digital Currencies) the direct control of money is switching from wealthy individuals to the power of government.
If this is so, it would be bad for what reason?
For one thing, and I have said it before, control. I do not want a government meddling in my personal life nor my personal finances.
Your quote baselessly asserts that CBDC's are a threat to a free society, but it is false that CBDC's will "give federal officials full control over the money going into–and coming out of–every person’s account." They have nothing to do with deposits at commercial banks.
Your quote also mentions fiat money again, more scaremongering that you've been swallowing hook line and sinker for a long time now. Why do you believe this constant stream of rubbish? Why are you such a rube?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by Phat, posted 05-23-2023 3:36 PM Phat has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(3)
Message 262 of 303 (910902)
05-24-2023 9:05 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by Phat
05-24-2023 12:25 PM


Re: In Brief:
Phat writes:
The difference is that now, once you withdraw a sum from the bank, you can do what you want with it anonymously. With a CBDC system there is no personal anonymity.
Just as with a regular banks, once you withdraw money from the Federal Reserve using a CBDC you can do what you want with it anonymously.
Some articles on the Internet talk about CBDC's as if they were already a reality, but looking into this a little bit further I see that they don't exist yet. But all G7 countries have moved into what they're calling the "development stage" of CBDC's.
I bet it's the gold nuts telling you this CBDC nonsense. They're just finding new ways to scare people like you into buying precious metals. Would you please wise up?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by Phat, posted 05-24-2023 12:25 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(3)
Message 272 of 303 (910923)
05-26-2023 8:16 AM
Reply to: Message 265 by Phat
05-25-2023 8:32 PM


Re: Fascism is here
Phat writes:
They really need to quit pushing CRT.
Unless they're fomenting insurrection or inciting riots or encouraging murder or engaging in libel or such things, why does anyone have to stop pushing anything?
It fosters division rather than unity.
Yes, it is obvious that calling attention to America's racist past alienates racists.
And your comment shows evidence of progressive authoritarianism. Since when do Americans have no right to publicly humiliate a divisive agenda? Would you not want that same right?
Uh, since the First Amendment?

--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by Phat, posted 05-25-2023 8:32 PM Phat has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(4)
Message 280 of 303 (910953)
05-28-2023 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 274 by Phat
05-27-2023 6:50 PM


Re: Fascism is here
Phat writes:
What you (militant progressives) DONT have the right to do is make up fancy theories and attempt to shame or silence people through trying to be morality cops and by using the cancel culture narrative.
Militant progressives? Do we really need the "I don't agree with them so I'll call them something that sounds derogatory" attitude?
Everyone has the right to "make up fancy theories and attempt to shame or silence people through trying to be morality cop." They also have the right to make up these kinds of accusations. There is great irony in your calls for censorship in the name of freedom. What you really want is censorship so you can have freedom from criticism.
You don't get to redefine either self identity or morality
That's what happens when humans become woke as a joke.
Woke is being aware of racial injustice, or injustice against any group or minority. The Republican war on "woke" is to justify their prejudices, and you're apparently fully on board with this.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by Phat, posted 05-27-2023 6:50 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(5)
Message 283 of 303 (910956)
05-28-2023 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 279 by Phat
05-28-2023 12:37 PM


Re: Singling Theo Out
Phat replying to Theodoric writes:
First off, the only reason I tend to single you out is because you have never been a believer,...
I don't know what's more incredible, that you're singling out people for abuse because of what they believe, or that you're admitting to it.
...you applaud experts (based mainly on their education)...
Now you're deprecating education and people with expertise? Really?
...and have no problem with eradicating Christian beliefs being represented in a classroom in any way.
I don't think Theodoric would express his wishes using this language, but anyway, the question should not be why Theodoric wants to eradicate Christian beliefs in the classroom, because I'm pretty sure most people here are against any religious beliefs being represented in the classroom. The proper question is why Republicans stopped believing in separation of church and state.
An even bigger question is why it's only Christian beliefs they want represented in the classroom. What about other religions. Christians don't mind if teaching Christianity in the classroom means that Islamic children are taught about God and Jesus, but try teaching their own children about Allah and Mohammed and they'll raise bloody hell.
Religions should exist independent of government, not as part of government. It's as if all the world's religious wars have taught conservatives nothing.
...my reaction was simply a buildup stemming from what is being taught and what is being dismissed.
What is being taught that you object to? Can I guess that you object to raising issues involving racism?
And what is it you think is being dismissed? How color-blind our society is?
It brings into play the whole argument between freedom of religion and freedom fromreligion.
If you understand the difference, why do you advocate teaching Christianity to children of all religions in the classroom?
Basically, my initial gripe was directed at the way that younger society is being taught these days. I knew a bit about what CRT stood for, and I knew that it was not a subject taught to students so much as an overall philosophy increasingly being adapted by teachers(since it is a graduate level study)
I think what you object to about CRT is that it acknowledges racial factors as influencing society and history.
In a nutshell, what I fear (logical or illogical might I be) is that the same ideas that we debate here will become mainstream and that students will be taught that it is politically correct to oppose religion(beliefs) and embrace an attitude akin to atheism and secular humanism.
You're associating CRT with secularism and atheism? This is definitely illogical.
Of course, much of the fault also lies with the churches. It was they who pushed Biblical Creationism with such desperate fervor.
This has nothing to do with CRT, but it is possible that creationism is responsible for at least some of the increase in secularism and atheism.
And I will cautiously agree that our future students need to be taught critical thinking and an honest examination of history.
But...
I simply fear that we are entering an era of over-correction, where minority cultures are applauded and showcased whereas the culture that I grew up in is increasingly shamed and told to sit down.
How can a culture be shamed if it has nothing to be ashamed of? Some culture was responsible for slavery. Some culture is responsible for current racism and discrimination. What culture could that possible be? Are the blacks responsible for their own plight? Did they sail themselves here from Africa? Did they force themselves into servitude on American plantations? Did they declare that they're only worth 3/5 of a white man? Did they enact Jim Crow laws to prevent them from participating in society at large or being represented in their own government? Did they blackball themselves from getting loans for homes or businesses? Did they enact "separate but equal" while ensuring that it meant whites got all the good stuff?
What you want is to conveniently forget all this, pretend that these parts of history never happened and instead to present a whitewashed version of history that doesn't implicate your ancestors and you in one of the biggest and still ongoing injustices of all time.
dwise1 writes:
History must be taught. Or are you personally opposed to the truth?
Religion (Christians, particularly) are increasingly being portrayed as ignorant rubes whose beliefs are grounded in fantasy.
Religion has been portrayed as fantasy since the beginning of time. When one person believes in a fantasy being it's called delusion. When many people believe in the same fantasy being it's called religion. More people believing something doesn't turn fantasy into fact. It just makes it harder to keep them from erecting temples in the town square.
Other religions and religious beliefs are showcased and celebrated, turning absolute truth into a mockery.
Remind me again which religion has the absolute truth?
Students are taught moral relativism to an excessive degree.
Moral relativism seems like one of the important concepts one would want covered in a philosophy course. You don't want this taught?
Of course, were the parents better educated, much of this could be minimized, but it seems that there is an imaginary line in the sand between belief and reality and that the implication is that any well educated individual should be skeptical at best and secular minded in regard to future possible events and trends on our planet.
In a passage I recently read about Mormonism the author described how Mormons are completely reasonable and rational in their personal and work lives in the real world while at the same time holding utterly fantastic religious beliefs that don't conform at all to the real world. Perhaps the Mormons' religious beliefs are a bit odder than most, but his description is true of most religion. Catholics can drive a car and work a job and play a sport while still believing they're eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Christ on Sunday. If a hermit off in the woods believed his dinner was actually the blood and flesh of his god everyone would think he's a religious nut, but if he's a Catholic in church on Sunday he's considered perfectly normal.
There is great irony in the fact that religions that feel they are being singled out for criticism are often guilty of treating religions other than their own just as badly.
Percy writes:
Yes, it is obvious that calling attention to America's racist past alienates racists.
I think that the very word racism is tossed around much too arbitrarily and liberally.
Racists always think there's too much talk about racism. If people would just stop calling attention to their racist attitudes and behaviors then they could go back their racist behaviors in peace.
It is one weapon to shame someone into silence for fear of offending anybody.
Racists are rarely ashamed of their behavior. Certainly you are not. You just want people to stop calling attention to your racism. You tell them that trying to influence your racist behavior is wrong because making people ashamed of something shameful is shaming, and we all know that if there's anything worse than racism that it's shaming.
Conservatives are trying to bring an end to affirmative action, and one of their arguments is that treating people according to race is racist. But that logic is upside down. Imagine a guy who runs a gas station tells a black person he can't use the regular bathroom but had to use the outhouse out back. You tell the guy that he can't do that, that it's racist. The guy objects that it is you who is being racist by calling attention to race.
It's impossible to remedy racial discrimination without talking about race, and calls to cease mentioning race when objecting to racism are absurd. So stop telling us there's too much focus on race, because it's only there because there's so much racism to object to.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by Phat, posted 05-28-2023 12:37 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(2)
Message 284 of 303 (911236)
06-20-2023 11:20 AM


Baseless Repetitive Rants
Phat ranted on off-topic in two messages in the The Discipline of Conservative Christian Children thread: Message 54 and Message 56:
Phat writes:
I challenge godless authority because I mistrust progressive intentions. They seek to control my money and force me to give mandatorily my share as determined by them.

Ive prayed about my flaws before, and it may well be that I am sinning by fighting progressives. I refuse to submit to the authority, however.
...
By authority, I meant a populist globalist-leaning government whose military-industrial complex feeds the wars for the stated purpose of improving a lot of humanity but whose agenda leaves the United States itself with a declining middle class, a growing nation of shoplifters and thieves, crumbling infrastructure and ever-growing inflation while we pump money overseas to defend democracy for the rest of the world. I won't see any jail time for that, any more than the shoplifters will after a defunded police have no teeth left to hold them accountable.
What I think we'd all like is for Phat to explain his positions and justify his accusations, but while we seem to have persuaded him to somewhat cut back his reliance on YouTube videos, it's obvious he's still watching them, and it's coincided with an increase in baseless assertions. He has all these feelings pent up inside about progressives and authoritarianism and money and the threat of disadvantaged people and God, but he's unable to argue for them, only repeat them.
I quoted these messages here because I think this thread is the closest to being appropriate for them.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 285 by Phat, posted 06-22-2023 6:11 AM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(2)
Message 299 of 303 (911318)
06-25-2023 12:42 AM
Reply to: Message 285 by Phat
06-22-2023 6:11 AM


Re: I see shoplifting in real time
What I was hoping you would address, and what you didn't touch on at all, were the positions you took and the accusations you made over in the The Discipline of Conservative Christian Children thread, like this:
Phat writes:
I challenge godless authority because I mistrust progressive intentions. They seek to control my money and force me to give mandatorily my share as determined by them.
And this:
By authority, I meant a populist globalist-leaning government whose military-industrial complex feeds the wars for the stated purpose of improving a lot of humanity but whose agenda leaves the United States itself with a declining middle class, a growing nation of shoplifters and thieves, crumbling infrastructure and ever-growing inflation while we pump money overseas to defend democracy for the rest of the world. I won't see any jail time for that, any more than the shoplifters will after a defunded police have no teeth left to hold them accountable.
And now in this thread you've just added to it with this:
Right now, the pendulum is swung so far to the left that we have police doing absolutely nothing to stop these assaults on businesses.
...
You liberal whiners will coddle the criminals and somehow blame the Republicans, but you likely would not be in favor of better security.
You should provide support for your claims. How are progressives associated with godless authority? By what means are they trying to control your money? Why do you blame progressives for the amounts of government taxes and fees when both parties are deeply involved in tax policy? Why do you say it is the progressives' military industrial complex, and that they're leveraging it to improve humanity, presumably in their own mold? Why do you blame progressives for a declining middle class? Why do you think crime is increasing when property crime is down and violent crime is holding steady over the past 30 years? How is crumbling infrastructure the fault of any particular political group? How do you still not understand that "defund the police" is just a slogan and does not mean to unfund them but to give the funds for non-police functions like wellness checks and traffic safety and so forth to more appropriate departments? Why do you think inflation, a world-wide post-covid phenomenon which the US is weathering better than most of the rest of the world, is somehow the fault of US progressives? Why do you think what you think you observe in your little part of the world is what's happening everywhere across the US?
What I think is that you're still watching too many YouTube videos. Those YouTube guys know how to rile you up, but it's apparent that they don't know how to provide any facts. They just want you worried as hell that things are falling apart so that you'll put your money into the only safe refuge, precious metals, better hurry while supplies last. Please stop listening to these guys. It's rotting your brain.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by Phat, posted 06-22-2023 6:11 AM Phat has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 300 of 303 (911321)
06-25-2023 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 288 by Phat
06-22-2023 12:08 PM


Re: I see shoplifting in real time
Phat writes:
First lets get one thing straight here! I NEVER voted for Donald Trump. Thanks to my sister I ended up voting for Biden and now regret it.
Unless you believe the lies Trump is telling, or others in the MAGA crew, Biden hasn't done anything that should cause you regret. You say you would never vote for Trump, yet most of what you say aligns with his lies pretty well.
I do all of those things, though I'm not gonna simply help people by voting progressive.
When the people around you have better lives, your life becomes better, too.
Giving a thief a house does not stop them from stealing. The rest of the homeless...most who are not thieves, can benefit.
Feeding and housing desperate people who steal to live *does* greatly reduce their need to steal. Government programs that reduce poverty and homelessness and hunger reduce crime.
You guys portray me as selfish and unchristian which is my fault, I suppose.
Uh, yeah, your fault entirely. We're just going by what you say. We didn't all get together in a secret meeting and say, "Hey, let's just out of blue start accusing Phat of being an uncaring, selfish racist." All we did was listen to your words.
There are many opportunities to share the gospel in an unobtrusive way and I do take advantage of my verbal skills in my work environment.
Your views are the antithesis of Jesus'. Like too many Christians, you have given up all moral authority for spreading his teachings.
You people think that all the world needs is a good government. You will be surprised.
What we actually think is that government that does good makes the world a better place.
Thats another topic, however. I'm not here to praise right wing authoritarianism.
Then stop doing it.
Too far left or too far right causes problems either way.
I hope all of us favor those who have the best interests of the people and the country at heart. If you're not really a right wing nut then stop talking like one. You could start by displaying a little sympathy for the desperate people stealing from your store.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by Phat, posted 06-22-2023 12:08 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 301 by Phat, posted 06-26-2023 1:14 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 302 of 303 (911335)
06-26-2023 8:34 PM
Reply to: Message 301 by Phat
06-26-2023 1:14 PM


Re: Is Trump The Only Alternative?
What you quoted from the New Yorker sums it up pretty well. Trump is more extreme than the rest of the Republicans, but their strategy is at heart the same: scare people into believing the county is going to hell and that only they can save it.
The guys in those precious metal YouTube videos you watch are using the exact same strategy, but in a financial context: scare people into believing the country is heading for a financial crash and that the only means of weathering the coming financial storm is to buy their precious metals.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 301 by Phat, posted 06-26-2023 1:14 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 303 by dwise1, posted 06-26-2023 9:16 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
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