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Author Topic:   When Fascism Comes To America
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(3)
Message 256 of 303 (910892)
05-24-2023 8:36 AM
Reply to: Message 253 by Phat
05-23-2023 3:36 PM


Re: In Brief:
Phat writes:
I do not want a government meddling in my personal life nor my personal finances.
Sounds very reasonable - I agree.
So, what specifically are we afraid might happen that's different from now if we move to a CBDC?
I see your columnist writes:
CBDCs Are About Control - They Should Be Stopped Columnist writes:
A CBDC would give federal officials full control over the money going into–and coming out of–every person’s account.
But... I don't see how that's any different from what we have now.
That is - the government already has full control over the money going into - and coming out of - every person's account.
Haven't you ever heard of the IRS "locking" or "freezing" someone's account? This is the government exerting their control. This level of control already exists in the system we have right now.
If this (something that already exists) really is the worst thing this columnist and you are afraid of - it sound more like fear-mongering (making something look bigger than it really is) than an actual concern.
My question is: What is the difference between locking/freezing an account now vs. locking/freezing an account using a CBDC? According to what you quoted - there is no difference at all. But feel free to take this time for further investigation and to bring more information forward.
I wouldn't want someone controlling my finances either. But, so far, you haven't described anything within CBDCs that's different from the system we're using right now.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by Phat, posted 05-23-2023 3:36 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 257 by Phat, posted 05-24-2023 12:25 PM Stile has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18295
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 257 of 303 (910894)
05-24-2023 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by Stile
05-24-2023 8:36 AM


Re: In Brief:
The difference is that now, once you withdraw a sum from the bank, you can do what you want with it anonymously. With a CBDC system there is no personal anonymity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by Stile, posted 05-24-2023 8:36 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 258 by Stile, posted 05-24-2023 12:52 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 259 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-24-2023 12:57 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 262 by Percy, posted 05-24-2023 9:05 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(1)
Message 258 of 303 (910895)
05-24-2023 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by Phat
05-24-2023 12:25 PM


Re: In Brief:
Phat writes:
The difference is that now, once you withdraw a sum from the bank, you can do what you want with it anonymously.
Can you name a few things here that you would like to do anonymously that you're worried about a bank or the government finding out about?
Personally, I never use cash. I use a credit card for all purchases. This benefits me because if something goes wrong (scam or product not working and vendor refuses refund...) I can always go back to my credit card and have them reverse the charge and deal with it on their end. This hasn't saved me a ton of money (I usually attempt to avoid scams) but it has saved me about $1000 or so over 10 years when such situations did arise.
But, in using a credit card for all things - all my purchases are already traceable.
So, again, I ask: what's the difference?
Or, at least: what kind of transactions are you looking to make that you're worried about them being traceable?
It still seems like you're discussing a problem with using age-old technology like credit instead of CBDCs.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by Phat, posted 05-24-2023 12:25 PM Phat has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4407
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


(2)
Message 259 of 303 (910896)
05-24-2023 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by Phat
05-24-2023 12:25 PM


Re: In Brief:
Phat in Message 257 writes:
The difference is that now, once you withdraw a sum from the bank, you can do what you want with it anonymously.
Withdrawals over $5000 require government forms, and there is hardly anywhere that purchase transactions are not recorded electronically. With video surveillance, there is an electronic record of even most cash transactions. Your anonymity is an illusion.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by Phat, posted 05-24-2023 12:25 PM Phat has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22473
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


(4)
Message 260 of 303 (910900)
05-24-2023 8:28 PM
Reply to: Message 250 by Phat
05-23-2023 7:29 AM


Re: In Brief:
Phat writes:
Tanypteryx writes:
Which country looks like it is behaving like a world leader?
Both the US and China are behaving like leaders within their respective domains.
I'm not sure what you think "behaving like leaders" entails, but it doesn't sound like something many countries live up to most of the time.
In the meantime, the whole concept of spending, controlling, and using money to finance global goals is changing. With the rise and eventual implementation of CDDC's,(Central Bank Digital Currencies) the direct control of money is switching from wealthy individuals to the power of government.
I can hear the echos of the gold standard in the background.
This concerns Conservatives more so than Liberals because Liberals favor bigger government. It is, to them, the only obvious solution to counter the power of wealthy cartels and private equity firms.
You are listening to someone's conspiracy theories again. It is not anything as simplistic as liberals favor bigger government and conservatives smaller. Much closer to the truth would be to say that liberals believe government can be a force for social and economic good, while conservatives believe that government governs best that govern least. Depending upon their goals of the moment, both philosophies are capable of growing or shrinking government, and have.
Phrases like "it was said" and "some say" are dead giveaways that what follows are baseless assertions. You know what people actually say? That you have an aversion to facts and a weakness for slick videos. Or even for bad videos, for that matter.
With the advent of CDBC's, nobody can operate apart from the central system.
You don't know what a CDBC is. They work just like your bank. With your bank you can withdraw physical money in person, or just use the app on your phone. The Federal Reserve used to have only pysical money, but now they have CDBC's, too, making it possible to withdraw money digitally from the Federal Reserve, say for a bond that matures.
CDBC do not replace banks or physical money. They're just a way for people to access money at the Federal Reserve digitally. That's it.
Please, please, please, stop listening to the nuts on YouTube.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by Phat, posted 05-23-2023 7:29 AM Phat has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22473
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


(3)
Message 261 of 303 (910901)
05-24-2023 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 253 by Phat
05-23-2023 3:36 PM


Re: In Brief:
Phat writes:
Theodoric writes:
Phat writes:
With the rise and eventual implementation of CDDC's,(Central Bank Digital Currencies) the direct control of money is switching from wealthy individuals to the power of government.
If this is so, it would be bad for what reason?
For one thing, and I have said it before, control. I do not want a government meddling in my personal life nor my personal finances.
Your quote baselessly asserts that CBDC's are a threat to a free society, but it is false that CBDC's will "give federal officials full control over the money going into–and coming out of–every person’s account." They have nothing to do with deposits at commercial banks.
Your quote also mentions fiat money again, more scaremongering that you've been swallowing hook line and sinker for a long time now. Why do you believe this constant stream of rubbish? Why are you such a rube?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by Phat, posted 05-23-2023 3:36 PM Phat has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22473
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


(3)
Message 262 of 303 (910902)
05-24-2023 9:05 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by Phat
05-24-2023 12:25 PM


Re: In Brief:
Phat writes:
The difference is that now, once you withdraw a sum from the bank, you can do what you want with it anonymously. With a CBDC system there is no personal anonymity.
Just as with a regular banks, once you withdraw money from the Federal Reserve using a CBDC you can do what you want with it anonymously.
Some articles on the Internet talk about CBDC's as if they were already a reality, but looking into this a little bit further I see that they don't exist yet. But all G7 countries have moved into what they're calling the "development stage" of CBDC's.
I bet it's the gold nuts telling you this CBDC nonsense. They're just finding new ways to scare people like you into buying precious metals. Would you please wise up?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by Phat, posted 05-24-2023 12:25 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9133
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


(3)
Message 263 of 303 (910904)
05-24-2023 10:06 PM


Fascism is here
These are the words that are banned in a Florida elementary school.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


Replies to this message:
 Message 264 by xongsmith, posted 05-24-2023 11:02 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2587
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.7


(1)
Message 264 of 303 (910905)
05-24-2023 11:02 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by Theodoric
05-24-2023 10:06 PM


Re: Fascism is here
Exhibit A on why parents should have NO say in what teachers are teaching in the public schools. That school parent should be put in stocks for public humiliation.

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
Enjoy every sandwich!

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by Theodoric, posted 05-24-2023 10:06 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 265 by Phat, posted 05-25-2023 8:32 PM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied
 Message 270 by dwise1, posted 05-26-2023 1:20 AM xongsmith has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18295
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 265 of 303 (910913)
05-25-2023 8:32 PM
Reply to: Message 264 by xongsmith
05-24-2023 11:02 PM


Re: Fascism is here
They really need to quit pushing CRT. It fosters division rather than unity. And your comment shows evidence of progressive authoritarianism. Since when do Americans have no right to publicly humiliate a divisive agenda? Would you not want that same right?
Addbyedit: I spoke too soon. The comments overwhelmingly favor the speaker rather than the ignorant loudmouth. I guess what irks me is Theos authoritarian cure for free speech, however ignorant.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by xongsmith, posted 05-24-2023 11:02 PM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by nwr, posted 05-25-2023 8:42 PM Phat has replied
 Message 267 by DrJones*, posted 05-25-2023 11:04 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 268 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-25-2023 11:42 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 269 by PaulK, posted 05-26-2023 12:01 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 271 by dwise1, posted 05-26-2023 4:06 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 272 by Percy, posted 05-26-2023 8:16 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 273 by Theodoric, posted 05-26-2023 8:30 AM Phat has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6409
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


(3)
Message 266 of 303 (910914)
05-25-2023 8:42 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by Phat
05-25-2023 8:32 PM


Re: Fascism is here
Phat in Message 265 writes:
They really need to quit pushing CRT.
Who's the "they" here. Perhaps you are referring to DeSantis, who is pushing false charges of CRT. And yes, that is divisive.
And yes, we have every right to criticize people who push a divisive agenda -- people like DeSantis, Trump, Abbott and Phat.

--> -->Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity <-- <--

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by Phat, posted 05-25-2023 8:32 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 274 by Phat, posted 05-27-2023 6:50 PM nwr has replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.9


(3)
Message 267 of 303 (910916)
05-25-2023 11:04 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by Phat
05-25-2023 8:32 PM


Re: Fascism is here
They really need to quit pushing CRT.
like you have the slightest clue as to what CRT is

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by Phat, posted 05-25-2023 8:32 PM Phat has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4407
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


(3)
Message 268 of 303 (910917)
05-25-2023 11:42 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by Phat
05-25-2023 8:32 PM


Re: Fascism is here
Phat in Message 265 writes:
They really need to quit pushing CRT.
Can you name a school that has CRT on its curriculum?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by Phat, posted 05-25-2023 8:32 PM Phat has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


(2)
Message 269 of 303 (910918)
05-26-2023 12:01 AM
Reply to: Message 265 by Phat
05-25-2023 8:32 PM


Re: Fascism is here
quote:
They really need to quit pushing CRT. It fosters division rather than unity
By which you mean that history needs to be censored to cover up the racism of America’s past. I think we can see who the authoritarian is.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by Phat, posted 05-25-2023 8:32 PM Phat has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5945
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 270 of 303 (910919)
05-26-2023 1:20 AM
Reply to: Message 264 by xongsmith
05-24-2023 11:02 PM


Re: Fascism is here
Exhibit A on why parents should have NO say in what teachers are teaching in the public schools.
Better to say that no parent should have veto power over what is taught in public schools. Imagine the chaos from that veto power being wielded by parents who are young-earth creationists, flat-earthers, birthers, election deniers, Holocaust deniers, and followers of all the various kinds of whacko-doodliness.
Though on a positive note, I've heard that one of the books banned from school libraries pursuant to a parent's complaint was The Bible. Must have been from its condoning girls getting pregnant by getting their father drunk and gang-raping him (eg, Lot and his daughters, Genesis 19).
Parents should have some kind of say in what goes on in public schools, but there need to be (and already are) proper channels and protocols for that, like working with the school board.
Despite all the MAGAt BS about promoting and honoring "parents' rights", what's actually happening is that the rights of most parents are being violated by a few zealots and wanna-be authoritarian politicians (eg, "DeSantamonous"). And any parents who do show up and try to claim their rights have to face MAGAt thugs (eg, Proud Boys & Oath Keepers) who show up to intimidate any dissent.
Das Horst Wessel Lied:
quote:
Die Fahne hoch! Die Reihen fest geschlossen!
SA marschiert mit ruhig festem Schritt.
Kam'raden, die Rotfront und Reaktion erschossen,
Marschier'n im Geist in unser'n Reihen mit.
Die Straße frei den braunen Bataillonen.
Die Straße frei dem Sturmabteilungsmann!
Es schau'n aufs Hakenkreuz voll Hoffnung schon Millionen.
Der Tag für Freiheit und für Brot bricht an!
Zum letzten Mal wird Sturmalarm geblasen!
Zum Kampfe steh'n wir alle schon bereit!
Schon flattern Hitlerfahnen über allen Straßen.
Die Knechtschaft dauert nur noch kurze Zeit!
(repeat first stanza)
Raise the flag! The ranks tightly closed!
The SA marches with calm, steady step.
Comrades shot by the Red Front and reactionaries
March in spirit within our ranks.
Clear the streets for the brown battalions,
Clear the streets for the storm division man!
Millions are looking upon the hooked-cross full of hope,
The day of freedom and of bread dawns!
For the last time, the call to arms is sounded!
For the fight, we all stand prepared!
Already Hitler's banners fly over all streets.
The time of bondage will last but a little while now!
Though from my memory of reading the lyrics in a historic magazine I bought in West Germany, Das III. Reich (1973), that second line was more like:
quote:
SA marschiert im fest geschloßnen Rang.
SA marches in tightly closed ranks.
"SA" was the Sturmabteilung, "Storm Division" or "Storm Detachment", AKA "Brown Shirts", the organized bands of Nazi thugs whose functions, besides "showing the flag" (ie, making the Nazi presence constantly known), was to intimidate and even eliminate any opponents or even anybody trying to carry on normally. Disruption of the normal operation of governmental or social bodies was an objective.
We see that now with paramilitary and white supremacist groups showing up at meetings they disapprove of (eg, school boards and other local government public meetings, story hours), with the flood of death threats against government officials at all levels and their families as well as election volunteers, and the explosion of mass shootings carried out primarily by white supremacists.
Le plus ça change, le plus la même chose. ("The more it changes, the more it's the same thing.")

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by xongsmith, posted 05-24-2023 11:02 PM xongsmith has not replied

  
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