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Author Topic:   When Fascism Comes To America
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4474
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


(2)
Message 241 of 303 (909644)
04-07-2023 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 240 by Phat
04-07-2023 12:06 PM


Re: Grinding America Down
Phat writes:
Tanypteryx writes:
Just what exactly is this duping that you have brilliantly uncovered?
I have read several books by people who study this stuff for a living.
And you still have not answered my question.
Phat writes:
You will argue that China does not have to be an enemy or even an adversary. You will argue that there is nothing wrong with trying to preserve the global fiat money system and that it is the conservatives who are clamoring for a financial collapse.
Your are just as shit at predicting my behavior as you are at predicting what's happening with world economics. I have never made any arguments suggesting anything you are predicting.
What I am trying to do here is get you to either explain specific things you have said or admit that a lot of what you say is bullshit, that it's just fluff with no actual content.
You claimed that Yellin and Powel were duped, but refuse to explain how they were duped and by whom and why they have not noticed that they were duped, but you have so brilliantly uncovered it...explain yourself or admit that you are just blowing smoke.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by Phat, posted 04-07-2023 12:06 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4474
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


(2)
Message 242 of 303 (909645)
04-07-2023 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 240 by Phat
04-07-2023 12:06 PM


Re: Grinding America Down
Phat writes:
You will argue
You haven't noticed, but I'm not arguing a position (other than you don't know what you are talking about). Instead, I am trying to get you to explain specific things you have stated. Is there anything coherent in your sky-is-falling ravings? Links to books or videos are not an explanation.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by Phat, posted 04-07-2023 12:06 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6414
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005


(3)
Message 243 of 303 (909647)
04-07-2023 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 240 by Phat
04-07-2023 12:06 PM


Re: Grinding America Down
Wiki:
The book outlines, and gives examples of, a number of American grievances with PRC policies such as:
Intellectual property theft
Chinese Communist Party infiltration of domestic society and institutions
The erosion of domestic political and economic institutions
Unfair and unequal trade practices
Chinese espionage in the United States
Foreign investment manipulation
Debt trap diplomacy and the Belt and Road Initiative

Let's look at those:
Intellectual property theft
Much of this isn't theft. It is US businesses outsourcing to cut costs, and giving the intellectual property to the Chinese to enable that outsourcing. And I do blame conservatives for the outsourcing, for putting profits ahead of people.
I'll note that the Chinese have never respected intellectual property. Obama's Trans Pacific Partnership was dealing with this. But Trump cancelled that.
Chinese Communist Party infiltration of domestic society and institutions
Do you really think that USA doesn't infiltrate societies in other nations?
The erosion of domestic political and economic institutions
As far as I can tell, the main culprits here are the Republicans who have been attempting an ideological takeover of the courts.
Unfair and unequal trade practices
Again, this has to do with outsourcing and Trump's cancelling of the Trans Pacific Partnership.
Chinese espionage in the United States
Do you doubt that there is USA espionage in China (and many other places)?
Foreign investment manipulation
Again, this is because of Republicans pushing deregulation too far.
Debt trap diplomacy and the Belt and Road Initiative
The debt increases when Republicans are in control.

--> -->Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity <-- <--

This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by Phat, posted 04-07-2023 12:06 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 251 by Phat, posted 05-23-2023 7:51 AM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9257
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 244 of 303 (909652)
04-07-2023 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 240 by Phat
04-07-2023 12:06 PM


Still no valid argument or data
Nice attempt at personal attacks. I never had faith.
Maybe you have read this before? It is fairly famous.
quote:
When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by Phat, posted 04-07-2023 12:06 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 245 by Phat, posted 04-09-2023 10:07 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18383
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 245 of 303 (909712)
04-09-2023 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 244 by Theodoric
04-07-2023 4:31 PM


Re: Still no valid argument or data
Matthew18:3 writes:
...“Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by Theodoric, posted 04-07-2023 4:31 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 247 by AZPaul3, posted 04-09-2023 10:46 AM Phat has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9523
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.5


(1)
Message 246 of 303 (909714)
04-09-2023 10:45 AM


“I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. You cannot pass.The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udûn. Go back to the Shadow! You cannot pass.” Gandalf, Fellowship of the Ring. JRR Tolkien

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8582
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


(1)
Message 247 of 303 (909715)
04-09-2023 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 245 by Phat
04-09-2023 10:07 AM


Re: Still no valid argument or data
AZPaul3 4:9 writes:
He that believeth in gods and yearns to be in the heavens with them is nutziod.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by Phat, posted 04-09-2023 10:07 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 248 by Phat, posted 04-09-2023 11:19 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18383
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 248 of 303 (909716)
04-09-2023 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 247 by AZPaul3
04-09-2023 10:46 AM


Re: Still no valid argument or data
Where is Mr.Deity when we need him?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by AZPaul3, posted 04-09-2023 10:46 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8582
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


(1)
Message 249 of 303 (909719)
04-09-2023 11:34 AM


Where is Mr.Deity when we need him?
Ok.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18383
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 250 of 303 (910878)
05-23-2023 7:29 AM
Reply to: Message 181 by Tanypteryx
03-14-2023 4:20 PM


Re: In Brief:
Tanypteryx writes:
Just what exactly is this duping that you have brilliantly uncovered?

Which country looks like it is behaving like a world leader?
Both the US and China are behaving like leaders within their respective domains.
As you point out, China is spending more money in what some would argue is the "only proper way" to spend/invest it. In the meantime, the whole concept of spending, controlling, and using money to finance global goals is changing. With the rise and eventual implementation of CDDC's,(Central Bank Digital Currencies) the direct control of money is switching from wealthy individuals to the power of government.
This concerns Conservatives more so than Liberals because Liberals favor bigger government. It is, to them, the only obvious solution to counter the power of wealthy cartels and private equity firms.
Historically, men of immense wealth and power were in league with big banks from the get go.(early twenties, formation of Federal Reserve, League of Nations...on now to the United Nations and World Economic Forum.) It was said of J.P. Morgan that he was in the pocket of the powerful banking cartel of the House of Rothchild. Now...years later, J.P Morgan/Chase is the leading bank of the United States and is likely in lockstep with our own Federal Reserve. Some say that regional (smaller) banks will eventually disappear by and large and that in this country only six major banks will survive. Assuming that to be a reactionary and alarmist sentiment, the CBDC system is a form of centralized control.
So where am I going with this? The issue of control. With the advent of CDBC's, nobody can operate apart from the central system. Money can be turned on and off to a 100x degree greater than current credit card systems. There will be no way to challenge such a system if your ideologies happen to disagree with the unipolar goals of such a system.
Meanwhile, the U.S. is becoming isolationist and spiteful toward our allies and has withdrawn aid from the less developed countries and has opened the gate to Chinese aid for the third world, and this is all driven by the Republicans and conservatives in the U.S. who seem to be afraid of absolutely everything that they can possibly imagine, while intentionally ignoring the global dangers that are obviously imperiling us all!.
See? You have identified what you see as the enemy of sanity and reason. You view China not as an enemy but as a worthy global competitor. You see nothing wrong with an eventual one world system of cooperation and unified goals. And to you, it matters little (apparently) whether or not the leading nation behind such a change is Communist.
What have you to say for yourself?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-14-2023 4:20 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 252 by Theodoric, posted 05-23-2023 10:26 AM Phat has replied
 Message 254 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-23-2023 4:29 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 260 by Percy, posted 05-24-2023 8:28 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18383
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 251 of 303 (910879)
05-23-2023 7:51 AM
Reply to: Message 243 by nwr
04-07-2023 1:19 PM


Re: Grinding America Down
nwr writes:
Much of this isn't theft. It is US businesses outsourcing to cut costs, and giving the intellectual property to the Chinese to enable that outsourcing. And I do blame conservatives for the outsourcing, for putting profits ahead of people.
Noted. Many wealthy individuals in the US are in bed with China...for their own selfish gains. Human Nature writ large!
nwr writes:
Do you really think that USA doesn't infiltrate societies in other nations?
Of course we do. When it comes to power and influence, global competition can be cutthroat. For the past 80 years, we have had the upper hand. But the balance of power is shifting.
nwr writes:
The debt increases when Republicans are in control.
Only when the GOP is in control? Lets examine the data.
PolitiFact.com writes:
The day President Joe Biden took office, the national debt stood at $27.7 trillion. Eight months later, it is approaching that $28.4 trillion limit. But Scott’s finger-pointing ignores how the debt got as big as it is. Thanks to spending for wars, crises and mandatory government programs, along with a series of tax cuts, the debt continued expanding throughout the post-World War II period, regardless of which party controlled the White House or Congress.(...)Marc Goldwein, senior policy director at the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, a group that promotes deficit reduction, said both parties own the current debt.
"It has been produced by Democrats and Republicans, on both a partisan and bipartisan basis," Goldwein said.
Quit blaming all of our problems on the Republicans and I may consider quitting calling out the Democrats. Both parties increase the debt. Period.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by nwr, posted 04-07-2023 1:19 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9257
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 252 of 303 (910880)
05-23-2023 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 250 by Phat
05-23-2023 7:29 AM


Re: In Brief:
With the rise and eventual implementation of CDDC's,(Central Bank Digital Currencies) the direct control of money is switching from wealthy individuals to the power of government.
If this is so, it would be bad for what reason?
This concerns Conservatives more so than Liberals because Liberals favor bigger government.
That is funny. Have you heard of the Republican Party?
Everything in this next paragraph is just unevidenced assertions. Can you back it with actual facts? An argument is only as good as the facts and data to back it up. "In your own words" does not mean just spewing crap.
Some say that regional (smaller) banks will eventually disappear by and large and that in this country only six major banks will survive.
Some say the earth is flat.
With the advent of CDBC's, nobody can operate apart from the central system. Money can be turned on and off to a 100x degree greater than current credit card systems.
What does this mean? Looks like random words trying to sound important.
See? You have identified what you see as the enemy of sanity and reason. You view China not as an enemy but as a worthy global competitor. You see nothing wrong with an eventual one world system of cooperation and unified goals. And to you, it matters little (apparently) whether or not the leading nation behind such a change is Communist.
Wow! That is what you got out of what he posted? You have either severe comprehension issues or are purposely misrepresenting what he said. This is the moat obvious strawman I have seen in a long time.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by Phat, posted 05-23-2023 7:29 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 253 by Phat, posted 05-23-2023 3:36 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18383
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 253 of 303 (910881)
05-23-2023 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by Theodoric
05-23-2023 10:26 AM


Re: In Brief:
Theo writes:
If this is so, it would be bad for what reason?
For one thing, and I have said it before, control. I do not want a government meddling in my personal life nor my personal finances.
Central Bank Digital Currencies Are About Control – They Should Be Stopped
Forbes:
While Americans have long held money predominantly in digital form—for example in bank accounts recorded as computer entries on commercial bank ledgers—a CBDC would differ from existing digital money available to the general public because a CBDC would be a liability of the Federal Reserve, not of a commercial bank.(...)And while this fact might seem like a feature instead of bug, it’s a major problem for anything that resembles a free society. (Paper currency is also a liability of the Fed, but that fact means very little with freely circulating fiat money, especially when private banks issue deposits.) ...
The CBDC itself is mainly the government’s attempt to protect its privileged position and exert more control over money.
The problem is that there is no limit to the level of control that the government could exert over people if money is purely electronic and provided directly by the government. A CBDC would give federal officials full control over the money going into–and coming out of–every person’s account. This level of government control is not compatible with economic or political freedom.
If Congress really wants to provide more access to financial markets and ensure more innovation in financial services, members should support more private innovation and competition. They should work to lessen government monopoly and regulation while ensuring that the Fed cannot issue a CBDC.

I agree with the columnist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by Theodoric, posted 05-23-2023 10:26 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 255 by Theodoric, posted 05-23-2023 5:31 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 256 by Stile, posted 05-24-2023 8:36 AM Phat has replied
 Message 261 by Percy, posted 05-24-2023 8:48 PM Phat has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4474
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


(4)
Message 254 of 303 (910882)
05-23-2023 4:29 PM
Reply to: Message 250 by Phat
05-23-2023 7:29 AM


Re: In Brief:
Tanypteryx in Message 181 writes:
Just what exactly is this duping that you have brilliantly uncovered?

Which country looks like it is behaving like a world leader?
You stated that Yellin and Powell were duped, but so far you have not described this duping. The basic definition of dupe is deceive. You implied that they were acting in a manner that would end in disaster because they were deceived by someone...maybe china?
My point here is that you just spout bullshit that actually has no informational content, it is meaningless noise.
Phat in Message 250 writes:
In the meantime, the whole concept of spending, controlling, and using money to finance global goals is changing. With the rise and eventual implementation of CDDC's,(Central Bank Digital Currencies) the direct control of money is switching from wealthy individuals to the power of government.
Can you provide a single documented case of a monetary policy change to implement Central Bank Digital Currencies?
Phat in Message 250 writes:
This concerns Conservatives more so than Liberals because Liberals favor bigger government.
Bullshit! Conservatives want to burn down the government of the people and replace it with a privatized profit producing theocracy.
Liberals want a government that functions for the benefit of all the citizens, as well as the wealthy and corporations. We want an efficient, fair government, not a big government.
Phat in Message 250 writes:
It was said of J.P. Morgan that he was in the pocket of the powerful banking cartel of the House of Rothchild.
By who? Documentation?
Phat in Message 250 writes:
Some say that regional (smaller) banks will eventually disappear by and large and that in this country only six major banks will survive. Assuming that to be a reactionary and alarmist sentiment, the CBDC system is a form of centralized control.
Some say? Documentation? And who is using a CBDC system?
Phat in Message 250 writes:
With the advent of CDBC's, nobody can operate apart from the central system.
Again, where are CDBCs being implemented?
Phat in Message 250 writes:
Money can be turned on and off to a 100x degree greater than current credit card systems. There will be no way to challenge such a system if your ideologies happen to disagree with the unipolar goals of such a system.
I have no idea what you are trying to say here.
Phat in Message 250 writes:
You view China not as an enemy but as a worthy global competitor.
This is incorrect. I see the reality of China using any means at their disposal to control the future of the planet. IMO the Chinese government sees humans as cogs in a vast machine with no individual rights whatsoever, and I oppose this with every fiber of my being.
Phat in Message 250 writes:
You see nothing wrong with an eventual one world system of cooperation and unified goals.
And you are shit at mind reading. I assume YOU have an extensive list of all the things disastrously wrong with a one world system of cooperation and unified goals?
Phat in Message 250 writes:
And to you, it matters little (apparently) whether or not the leading nation behind such a change is Communist.
What have you to say for yourself?
Actually, it doesn't matter to me at all, because I have no means whatsoever to avoid whatever changes or control to the global economy, or society, China is trying to achieve.
The U.S. infrastructure is crumbling while China is spending trillions on theirs, and so far we are spending trillions on corporations and the 1%.
Who the fuck do you think will win?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by Phat, posted 05-23-2023 7:29 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9257
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


(3)
Message 255 of 303 (910883)
05-23-2023 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 253 by Phat
05-23-2023 3:36 PM


Re: In Brief:
For one thing, and I have said it before, control. I do not want a government meddling in my personal life nor my personal finances.
So you think billionaires care more about your well-being than the government? You do realize that the US is not implementing a CBDC.
Personally, I don't think anything a libertarian says is worth a damn. If a libertarian told me it was night when it was dark, I would check other sources.
Government should be able to control money. They made it.
Not surprised you ignored the majority of my response. That is what ignorant people do. Ignore what they don't understand.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by Phat, posted 05-23-2023 3:36 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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