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Author Topic:   Problems with being an Atheist (or Evolutionist)
onifre
Member (Idle past 3065 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 78 of 276 (538848)
12-10-2009 9:08 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Bolder-dash
12-09-2009 1:59 PM


Is it just a practical consideration, that by being moral in your own mind, maybe its harder to get in trouble, legal or otherwise. Why have principal if you believe life is just a random mix of proteins? I really can't understand that.
Are you saying you only have morality because you are being watched by God?
How pathetic. Are you a child that doesn't know better?
- Oni
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein.
AdminPD
Edited by AdminPD, : Off Topic

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Bolder-dash, posted 12-09-2009 1:59 PM Bolder-dash has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Bolder-dash, posted 12-10-2009 11:20 PM onifre has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 3065 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 172 of 276 (581306)
09-14-2010 11:42 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by riVeRraT
09-13-2010 3:54 PM


Stile, my problems with atheism, and or atheists, is that they pretend to not believe in something, for one.
In general, we apply a simple, logical position to any questions about supernatural or non-materialistic entities: When those claiming it can provide proof, we'll evaluate the evidence.
You clearly recognize that:
riVeRaT writes:
the bible clearly states that it is by faith that you get to know God.
That's just it, when you apply the above to your religion, anyones religion, or for that matter, anyones claim, you are not applying faith. You are critically evaluating evidence. If you have none, other than "faith," it won't impress.
The thing to remember is, YOU apply this same method of evaluation to other religions or supernatural claims. You just happen to believe in one of the many that exist.
You are not respecting people when you do that, you are insulting them.
I don't go around insulting people and their faith, but when you come to a forum to debate this subject, thick skin is a requirement on your part. We won't hold back because that's where the fun is. And neither do you, RR.
So then don't be hypocrites, just like people need to take moral responsibility, and responsibility for their own actions, then atheists need to stop using people's irrational beliefs in god/s to not believe.
This isn't done without reason, it is done when the religion had sole influence on the evil action. If you strap a bomb to your chest and blow up a church because, according to your interpretation of your religious book you have to because others are the enemy, then the religion had influence.
No atheist does an evil act because according to them there is no evidence for supernatural entities. That would mean EVERY supernatural entity.
Is there really someone killing people because they don't believe there is enough evidence to support the belief that Zues exist?
Largely I find the logic in being an atheist to be hypocritical
And yet you apply our same logic to other faiths for which you have no belief for. We just go one more than you and include Christianity.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by riVeRraT, posted 09-13-2010 3:54 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 3065 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 177 of 276 (581460)
09-15-2010 6:03 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by riVeRraT
09-15-2010 7:43 AM


Re: Atheism IS a belief
A true scientifically minded person, or logically minded person would never be an atheist. He would always leave room open for further interpretation. At best he would be agnostic.
Why? Why should I consider the possibility of a being that human's imagined as being valid? The default position is, there are no supernatural entities, nor does that word represent an actual function of reality - Because, there is no evidence for either. I start at zero and work my way up the scale of belief as more and more evidence is brought forward. But as of yet, there is no evidence, not in the slightest, so I remain at position zero, also refered to as atheism.
An agnostic has in some way accept the possibility of these imagined beings. An agnostic has said to him/her self, maybe one of these humans got it right. Maybe one of them has actually nail a concept that might possibily exist. They have also recognized that no evidence exists to support such a concept, but maybe it can exist. It's not impossibile as I've been told.
Personally, I remain unconviced, not that something unknown can possibily exist - that I agree with, unknown things may exist and one day be known - but unconvinced of the possibility that a human being, here on Earth, somehow had an experience that supported the notion that things that are not bound by or derived from the laws of nature can exist. Frankly, how the fuck could anyone possibly assume such an illogical thing based on meer experiences?
Because of that, and the way atheist come across, atheist seem like nothing more than pissed off believers, who actually know God exists in their hearts, and they just want to deny Him so they can live by their own rules.
Do I seem like that to you? 'Cause I'll caution you that that would be insulting.
You are also doing what most theist do, you only accpet one god and to YOU all atheist are rejecting your god and his rules. But there are thousands of other gods rejected equally by theist and atheists, we just go one more than you. You are an atheist like me for any other concept of god that isn't the Christian version. Are you denying the existence of all those other gods and their rules so that you may live your life by your own rules? No, right. So why fling that crap on us for doing the same thing you're doing?
We are all atheists, RR.
Also people who take it on faith that god wants them to go and blow people up because of something they read in a book, are just doing what they would have done regardless of the book.
If that were true, then could you name me one suicide bomber from the religion of Buddhism? Or Jainism? Or Hinduism? Or Christianity? Judaism? No...just Muslims. So it is an isolated problem and one associated solely with the Muslim faith. The bomber is not acting on his/her own beliefs, but the beliefs of their religion.
If I read something like that in the bible, I would have enough common sense to know it was wrong, and then it would make me question my faith in that book.
Excuse me but the Bible warns it's followers to not pick and choose, nor to question the word of god.
- Oni
PS. Be cool with frako, english isn't his first language but seems to be able to defend himself quite well.
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

"Noam Chomsky is a liberal. He's like the nation's most infamous liberal, for Christ's sake."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by riVeRraT, posted 09-15-2010 7:43 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 191 by riVeRraT, posted 09-19-2010 8:48 PM onifre has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 3065 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 235 of 276 (582278)
09-20-2010 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by riVeRraT
09-19-2010 8:48 PM


Re: Atheism IS a belief
Human imagined? Prove that one, or else stop saying it.
There are 1000's of concepts, which one should we start with?
People are born thinking there is more to life than just this. Believing in a god and the supernatural is the default position.
You can't take a positive position without evidence. You can't say there is the supernatural and god/s without evidence, then wait to see if evidence disproves it. You can't prove a negative.
That's why the default is there is nothing until someone shows you something. People are indoctrinated into beliefs, RR. A child is born as an atheist, having never heard of anything yet. Parents mold their children's beliefs, if left alone the child would have none.
Again, you will never find God that way. It is by faith only. If you are not willing to live by faith, then you will never know God.
This is a cop-out.
Why is that so hard for you to imagine? You have never sat in a black-lit room, stoned out of your mind wondering where the hell all this came from? Ever wonder what was before the big bang? It is totally easy to imagine things working in a different way. Time travel, worm holes, the random movements of quantum particles, its all there.
Of course - stoned, trippin', I've even done DMT at a meditation retreat. It is totally easy to imagine things, but that's just what it is, an imagined thing. It does not represent reality, much less, an alternate reality in which no laws apply.
If our best equipment can't detect these "outside of the universe" realms, trippin' on some shrooms isn't going to get you closer to the answer.
Either that or I am delusional.
Well lets first admit that delusional is the one possibility that doesn't require there to exist an outside of the universe or an all knowing , all powerful, yet undetectable, invisible being that can suspend the laws of nature. In other words, what's more likely?
A theist is someone who believes in a "god", not any specific god, just a god.
But you are a Christian, you believe that Jesus was the son of god that died on the cross, etc, etc, etc. Right?
I am pretty sure that is not true. Someone chime in here. Lots of killing has gone on in the name of "god" throughout the centuries.
I meant specifically suicide bombing. What religion do suicide bombers come from?
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by riVeRraT, posted 09-19-2010 8:48 PM riVeRraT has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 247 by Rrhain, posted 10-02-2010 3:10 AM onifre has seen this message but not replied

  
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