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Author Topic:   Problems with being an Atheist (or Evolutionist)
menes777
Member (Idle past 4432 days)
Posts: 36
From: Wichita, KS, USA
Joined: 01-25-2010


Message 95 of 276 (544611)
01-27-2010 1:59 PM


Not sure
Unless someone objects I would like to take a crack at giving my take on the points that were raised by Buzzsaw. Wanted to make sure it wouldn't be considered thread jacking or something similar.

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-27-2010 2:11 PM menes777 has not replied
 Message 97 by Stile, posted 01-28-2010 7:48 AM menes777 has not replied

  
menes777
Member (Idle past 4432 days)
Posts: 36
From: Wichita, KS, USA
Joined: 01-25-2010


Message 98 of 276 (544787)
01-28-2010 12:33 PM


Thanks guy
quote:
1. If I were an evolutionist, logic would call for some explanation for the wide gap of intelligence between humans and other living things (abe: relative to life and death).
Disclaimer: Humans are animals too but for clarification I use animals to refer to everything but humans.
While there could be considered a wipe gap in between humans and living things, there's very simple explanations for how and why.
First, the easiest and shortest explanation for this gap is the fact that humans have the largest brain size in comparison to our body size. When man began to control and use fire to cook food, the need for large jaws became less and less important. Meat could be cooked and as a result the huge jawbones that were needed to eat raw meat weren't needed so much anymore. This allowed the ratio of brain cavity to jaw size to increase with each generation. The birthing canal in a human female can only accommodate a maximum size head to pass through it. Thus as the jaw size decreased, it allowed for an increase in the size of the cranium. As cranium sized increases the size at which the brain could grow to also increases. The larger the brain size the more varied and the more powerful the brain can become. That is why modern humans are so much more intelligent than say chimpanzees or dogs or cats.
Secondly, animals are much more intelligent than people give them credit for. Some Bottle-nose Dolphins have devised a hunting method for catching fish. They swim in a tight circle and stir up the bottom with their tails creating walls of muddy water. This creates an artificial net that the fish think is real. Eventually the circle becomes small enough that the fish panic and jump to escape, right into the waiting Dolphin's mouths. That takes quite a bit of intelligence on several different levels. Essentially they are doing the same thing as human fisherman do with nets. This is but one example of how animals are intelligent enough to not only understand abstract concepts but are able to logically work things out.
Thirdly, the same learning techniques that humans use are generally the same ones used by animals, they just can't take it as far as we can because they don't have the brain power to do so. This is also shown when humans have mental handicaps or mental retardation. It's not that they aren't intelligent enough to learn, it's that they can only learn so far and only understand a certain number of concepts. The same applies to animals as they can only advance in learning to a certain point and then no further.
Finally, humans can use technology and our ability to manipulate our environment to our advantage. One of the benefits of being able to manipulate our environments in complex ways is that we can use it to increase the sum of human intelligence as a whole. We can create schools, libraries, computers and many other things to increase the sum of our intelligence. We have tools for writing and recording information so that it can benefit others. Just imagine how much information is spread around the internet and how much smarter (and sometimes less smart) we are for it.
quote:
3. If I were an evolutionist I might be bothered by the fact that humans have the power over all other living things to manage their lives in whatever way man determines to do. The reason this would bother me is that the Biblical record declares in Genesis that that would be the case.
The first thing that came to mind when I read this was Ace Ventura in his apartment saying "Come to me Jungle friends!". This statement makes it seem like humans have some kind of Jedi like mind power over the lesser creatures. How about swimming with the sharks and see how much power you have over them? Or go try to mess with the cubs of a lioness and see how much power you have. What about all those teeny tiny bacteria that have the power to wipe out millions of people? Those are living things yet sometimes humans can be entirely helpless when it comes to controlling them. If you consider Viruses alive then the problem gets even worse as humans have almost no power over them. How much power did humans have in 1918 when the Avian flu devastated the world. How about all those outbreaks of Bubonic plague? Humans have the ability to change our environments to meet our needs. We can control them and we can wipe them out, but power over the animals we do not have. And we especially don't have power over all living things such bacteria.
Domestication - Domestication can be considered to almost always be a symbiotic relationship. When the bible was written domestication of animals was quite common. Therefore it could be taken for granted that humans have always had power over the animals. Then add in a little something to the bible about how a god gave them this power. Yet that it is not what domestication is about. The cows don't stay with Farmer Brown because he has power over them. They stay because he feeds them, waters them, shelters them, cares for them, fences them in and protects them from predators. Even then if they can get out of the fence they will. That type of control is just an illusion of power. Take away the food, the shelter and the means of control and humans have no power over any of those domestic animals.
quote:
2. If I were an evolutionist I would seriously pursue the phenomena of religion in that throughout the recorded history of humans all cultures have been religious. As an evolutionist this would be a puzzling thing in that this propensity has evolved exclusively into the human brain. This along with the phenomenon of good and evil would lead me to investigate the legitimacy of religions relative to life and death questions.
When early humans couldn't explain something they attributed it to the gods or a god. Religion built up around these beliefs and evolved into what we know as religion today. Yet, as the sum of human knowledge has increased and we began to understand more and more about the world around us, the idea of a god has became less and less. Religion has come from believing in many gods to believing in just one (each). What's next, that all gods go away? Also consider that there are so many different forms of religion out there. There is polytheism, pantheism,monotheism and so on. Yet if there was one god (the Xian one) and he has a plan of salvation for everyone while all the different types of religion? Why all the different sects of Xianity even? I think the fact that there are so many different types of religion is more of a problem for the Xian creationist than the evolutionist.
quote:
4. If I were an evolutionist the mystery of how evolvement of good and evil has affected humanity socially, morally and other ways would.
Good and evil are artificial terms created by humans for a couple of reasons. As it applies to society, anything that goes against the grains of society is considered evil. As it applies to morals, usually what is morally correct is considered good and what is morally incorrect (or immoral) is considered evil. Yet is it really evil to steal if you are starving? Is it evil to lie to protect someone's life? Yes there are some things that no benefit can come of them no matter how you spin it. Such as rape, killing someone because they were in the way, child molestation, etc etc. Those things could be considered evil no matter what the circumstance. So then is evil considered to be destruction or harm without benefit or positive outcome as a whole? Would you consider hunters who only hunt for trophies to be evil? What about little kids beating the crap out of each other on the playground? Why are these not considered evil? Then the question to be asked is what is good? Is it good to give $20 to charity? Some might argue that giving to anyone like that isn't good because it doesn't encourage them to help themselves. The point is that good & evil are almost always relative and are situational defined at best. Society isn't defined by good and evil, it defines what it is good and what is evil. The same applies to morals as they fit into any society. Aside from that good and evil do not exist.

  
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