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Author Topic:   Problems with being an Atheist (or Evolutionist)
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003


Message 12 of 276 (490917)
12-09-2008 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Stile
12-08-2008 10:37 AM


I've never understood why Theists think that a history of Theism should pose such a problem for Atheists. The fact is that throughout history people have, for the most part, been wrong about everything. You don't find ancient theories of Quantum Dynamics, nor tribal traditions of Conservation of Energy. Thousands of years went by before people twigged that the Sun was just another Star but a great deal nearer. That a whole bunch of folk who've believed in the supernatural are wrong is not exactly a surprise.

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 Message 1 by Stile, posted 12-08-2008 10:37 AM Stile has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by riVeRraT, posted 09-13-2010 3:54 PM Dr Jack has replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003


Message 167 of 276 (581102)
09-13-2010 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by riVeRraT
09-13-2010 3:54 PM


Science included? I think so.
Science has a method for improving what it's right about, and finding what it's wrong about. I see no reason to take the opinions about reality of anything that doesn't have such a method seriously.
Stile, my problems with atheism, and or atheists, is that they pretend to not believe in something, for one.
What does not believing in something really entail? For my part, it's really not that I don't believe in god(s), it's just that I believe in something that doesn't leave room for them.
2. they say they won't subscribe to a god because of lack of evidence, when the bible clearly states that it is by faith that you get to know God.
Yeah, that particular piece is a sizeable part of the reason I find the Christian notion of God so unacceptable. No, I will not have faith. Faith is a cop-out, it is a shoddy alternative to knowledge, it is what you have when you don't know something. Parading it around as a grand virtue is obscene*.
3. they say they don't have a problem with people having faith (so long as they are not doing harm to anyone) then go on to compare faith in god to santa claus, or the easter bunny. You are not respecting people when you do that, you are insulting them.
Outside of arguments about religion I tend to extend every respect to other people's beliefs. But if you're going to get into an argument about it, then, yeah, I don't see the difference. I don't think theism is an philosophical idea inherently deserving of my respect, I think that robbed of its history, no-one would take the idea any more seriously than we take the Easter Bunny.
4. they resort to history books and point out all the bad things that were done in the name of god/s
The problem with religious history is not that bad things have been done in the name of God, it's that there's no sign of those who believe one thing or the other behaving any better than anyone else (with the exception of the Quakers who, frankly, rock on toast; seriously, has there ever been a group of people with such a consistent history of being on the right side of moral arguments?).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by riVeRraT, posted 09-13-2010 3:54 PM riVeRraT has not replied

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 Message 171 by Nij, posted 09-13-2010 8:09 PM Dr Jack has not replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003


Message 181 of 276 (581529)
09-16-2010 5:31 AM
Reply to: Message 173 by riVeRraT
09-15-2010 7:43 AM


Re: Atheism IS a belief
I am not going to reply to everyone individually. I see no need for you people to repeat answers. I am well aware of the atheists stance on "the lack of belief". However, atheism by definition is not someone who doesn't believe in something. Atheism, in a narrow sense is specifically the position that there are no deities. That is a belief. You cannot dis-prove God's existence, so you believe there are no gods. Don't be hypocrites.
Well, sure, if you want to use your version of what atheism means, you could claim that. But, if you want to know what we, actual atheists think you might be better listening to us.
Think of it like this, would you describe yourself as an 'a-zeusist'? Or someone with a belief in no Shiva? No, because these things aren't central to your beliefs, they're merely consequences of what you believe.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by riVeRraT, posted 09-15-2010 7:43 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 193 by riVeRraT, posted 09-19-2010 8:51 PM Dr Jack has replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003


Message 214 of 276 (582152)
09-20-2010 4:16 AM
Reply to: Message 193 by riVeRraT
09-19-2010 8:51 PM


Re: Atheism IS a belief
That meaning was ripped from wikipedia.
Okay, so:
Well, sure, if you want to use that version of what atheism means, you could claim that. But, if you want to know what we, actual atheists think you might be better listening to us.
Now would you care to respond to the point?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by riVeRraT, posted 09-19-2010 8:51 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 224 by riVeRraT, posted 09-20-2010 1:57 PM Dr Jack has not replied

  
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