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Author Topic:   Problems with being an Atheist (or Evolutionist)
CosmicChimp
Member
Posts: 311
From: Muenchen Bayern Deutschland
Joined: 06-15-2007


Message 10 of 276 (490898)
12-09-2008 2:53 PM


I'm having a bit of a problem with atheism in two ways. First of all I am an atheist and do not believe that a God exists or that anything supernatural occurs or has ever occurred. I do however, still believe in what the Church is accomplishing. I think spiritualism and various other factors associated with religion have a place in society. So my first problem is, "How am I supposed to reckon my position with religious members of my social circle?" I could lie, and just play along keeping my mouth shut at critical times, all for the sake of supporting the delusion in the minds of my associates. This tact seems to be my current answer. The second problem I have is a branch of the first. If I have children I would instinctively want to raise them Catholic, so that they too could experience the sheer cultural beauty of it all, but I at the same time cannot delude myself with a belief in the supernatural. Again I am forced to play along and keep quiet for a better good. A good I still believe in.
Thinking about it now, I realize there is also a third problem, I would condemn religions not offering the kind of cultural beauty I spoke of before. But it all fits into my concept of religion as beautiful cultural expression.

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Stile, posted 12-10-2008 8:55 AM CosmicChimp has replied

  
CosmicChimp
Member
Posts: 311
From: Muenchen Bayern Deutschland
Joined: 06-15-2007


Message 16 of 276 (490969)
12-10-2008 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Stile
12-10-2008 8:55 AM


What is unique about religion? Everything
Stile you ask:
I have to ask, what is it you think is so special about the Church that cannot be easily duplicated by non-Church entities?
...
What's wrong with a community centre that does not carry the unproductive additives of religion?
...
Again, what virtues do you think the Catholic Church possesses that cannot be easily duplicated by non-religious activities?
That big lie (religion) is the best scam in town. Nothing can top it. As soon as you start incorporating heaven, hell, gods and demons etc, people really perk up and listen to the message. You can rarely get that kind of effect in a natural world setting. Adults might respond to the kind of beauty present in the arts and sciences, but for kids and I would even venture to say most adults too, there is no comparison between the two strategies. Game over, no contest, fiction, fire & brimstone win. We're not robots we respond to that kind of thing. I think it goes back to some sort of successful primal survival behaviors. Dawkins says also as much in his The God Delusion (as far as getting kids to follow orders and tribal customs).
What cultural beauty does the Catholic Church have that is not surpassed by the cultural beauty of a local natural landmark?
First of all, I bring up Catholicism only because it is the one I know best and have the most experience with. Whatever cultural or religious experiences I had there, I am certain could have been had in so many other of the worlds religions. So, I imply no bias in that respect. Getting back to the question, your comparison is not very different on some levels, the glaring difference though is that in the church setting you have the participation of the group of church members whereas in the nature scene it is to me more of a personal experience. That feeling of group participation is by no means any small effect and not to be underestimated.
What community spirit does a Catholic Church have that is not surpassed by the community spirit of the local highschool football game, or subdivision BBQ?
In this comparison I see hardly any real difference although that whole delusion thing, faith etc, turns into a group delusion perhaps even hysteria in some religious forms, this then is more intense than your average community event.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Stile, posted 12-10-2008 8:55 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Stile, posted 12-10-2008 12:59 PM CosmicChimp has replied
 Message 36 by Otto Tellick, posted 12-05-2009 3:04 PM CosmicChimp has not replied

  
CosmicChimp
Member
Posts: 311
From: Muenchen Bayern Deutschland
Joined: 06-15-2007


Message 18 of 276 (491007)
12-10-2008 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Stile
12-10-2008 12:59 PM


Re: Much is unique, but is any of it good?
...
I'm wondering if there are any good, beneficial things that are only available from religion.
What virtues do you think religion possesses that cannot be easily duplicated by non-religious activities?
By "virtues" I mean anything that would be desireable or beneficial to be a part of. I'm looking for things to add to my life. I do not care to add anything negative.
I've heard it described as, "The religious experience." I don't know how to have one. Your ideas about communing with nature I think are on the right track, as well as participating in community events. But I still think that the various religions of the world have the market just about cornered on religious experiences. I haven't had one since I was a kid receiving one of the sacraments. These days the closest I get is by watching sunsets or being in the mountains, jungles or maybe even going to a sports stadium full of screaming fans or connecting with great works of art or architecture.
It's the religious experience I would say is a part of what you can take away from participating in an organized religion. But still don't get me wrong, I'm only saying a redeeming quality exists and this is what it is.
I'm bit wary recommending you attend a church. As far as I'm concerned I have not completely reconciled my own problem with the idea that something based upon a lie has some worth. I'm an atheist and I'm simply trying to understand the dynamics of putting forth a reason to send a possible future child of mine into the Catholic faith. I'm leaning toward doing it, as for me the whole thing was completely and utterly positive. But as I said I don't believe in God, Santa Claus or faeries they've all become for me equally likely.
I'm sure I don't need to tell you about values and altruism being fostered by religions. These things are also some positive foundation for religion. But these are also easily taught outside of any organized religion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Stile, posted 12-10-2008 12:59 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Stile, posted 12-11-2008 7:42 AM CosmicChimp has replied

  
CosmicChimp
Member
Posts: 311
From: Muenchen Bayern Deutschland
Joined: 06-15-2007


Message 20 of 276 (491051)
12-11-2008 8:01 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Stile
12-11-2008 7:42 AM


Re: Much is unique, but is any of it good?
Good stuff man, thanks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Stile, posted 12-11-2008 7:42 AM Stile has seen this message but not replied

  
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