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Author Topic:   Problems with being an Atheist (or Evolutionist)
Tram law
Member (Idle past 4817 days)
Posts: 283
From: Weed, California, USA
Joined: 08-15-2010


Message 160 of 276 (576276)
08-23-2010 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by 0ut0f0rder
08-22-2010 2:09 AM


quote:
I don't believe in Atheists
Then you deny atheism.
Which means atheists exist!
To turn around an argument theists often use against atheism.
Edited by Tram law, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by 0ut0f0rder, posted 08-22-2010 2:09 AM 0ut0f0rder has not replied

  
Tram law
Member (Idle past 4817 days)
Posts: 283
From: Weed, California, USA
Joined: 08-15-2010


Message 161 of 276 (576321)
08-23-2010 5:39 PM


My biggest problem is trying to help people who don't understand atheism understand what an atheist is, most people I know are Christians and they will do everything they can to deny that I am an atheist or redefine me as something like an agnostic because that's something they can understand. It's frustrating to constantly try to explain to them that an atheist is simply someone who has a lack of belief in God and/or the supernatural.
Edited by Tram law, : added the fragment "people who don't understand atheism" for a more complete sentence

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by riVeRraT, posted 09-13-2010 3:57 PM Tram law has not replied

  
Tram law
Member (Idle past 4817 days)
Posts: 283
From: Weed, California, USA
Joined: 08-15-2010


Message 184 of 276 (582063)
09-19-2010 2:33 PM


A true scientifically minded person, or logically minded person would never be an atheist. He would always leave room open for further interpretation. At best he would be agnostic.
Generally speaking, the way science works is that a conclusion is made based on the results of an experiment to provide facts. You are correct in one aspect, that science is self correcting in one way, but it only self corrects itself when better information comes along to change a previous fact.
And your claim is also misleading too, because many atheists want real evidence that God exists which counters your claim that they do not. Currently, all we have are claims and beliefs of the existence of god. And of course, since it is you people who are making the claim that God exists and we must all worship him in one single way, it is you who must provide the evidence of God's existence. We do not have to prove or support our claim because it is not an active claim. An active claim would be something like "it is completely impossible for a being like God to exist". If we made that claim, which we aren't, we would have to prove it with evidence.
For example, God does miracles.
Okay.
We want to see a miracle that cannot be explained by science. A good example of this kind of miracle is that we'd like to see God himself come down from heaven, cut somebody's arm off with a large sword, then regrow the arm without the use of any sort of technology, however small or large, of absolutely any sort. Because any technology is indistinguishable from magic (to paraphrase Arthur C. Clarke's famous quote) and can be used to simulate a miracle. So therefore, if any sort of technology is used then it cannot be a supernatural miracle since supernatural miracles do not use technology of any sort.
This is actually my favorite video on the subject:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rqUsC2KsiI
But, I'm of the opinion it's completely impossible for a theist to understand what atheism truly is, because of the absolutely ludicrous and deplorable verse "The fool sayeth in his heart there is no God".
And I don't know why I'm even bothering. Theists never change their mind when it comes to atheism. They are completely unable to do so. Because then it might lead them to question the existence of God and we can't have that now, can we?
Edited by Tram law, : better formatting and correction of spelling

  
Tram law
Member (Idle past 4817 days)
Posts: 283
From: Weed, California, USA
Joined: 08-15-2010


Message 232 of 276 (582258)
09-20-2010 2:48 PM


I really hate when atheists do just what you did. There has to be a name for it, something like, lying?
Jesus doesn't stop us from doing anything, only you can, by following His ways. If you follow His ways, you are believing in Him, if you are not, then you are not believing in Him. You can say whatever you want with your mouth, that doesn't mean crap.
In other words, God is not omnipotent and has no power to stop you. It is all you.
In regards to the meaning of faith and belief, for me belief is a choice made with facts and evidence to back it up. Faith is an assumption made without facts and evidence to back it up.

  
Tram law
Member (Idle past 4817 days)
Posts: 283
From: Weed, California, USA
Joined: 08-15-2010


Message 238 of 276 (582316)
09-20-2010 7:29 PM
Reply to: Message 237 by Modulous
09-20-2010 6:50 PM


Re: trust
Surely I need to have faith that the 'teachings' are indeed Jesus' teaching and not the teachings of someone else?
Yes. There are many different versions of the Bible.
The most popular one in America is KJV, but mostly because it is a protestant Bible. Catholics of Course use the Catholic Bible. And there are older Bibles, such as the 1411 Bible. In the modern age we have the New International One, the Jeffersonian Bible, the book Of Mormon, and the Conservative Bible.
In each of these Bibles the language is changed to reflect the beliefs of its writers.
For example (this is just an arbitrary choice) of how a verse can be change to reflect the beliefs of the writers:
KJV
Acts 2:1 - 'And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.'
NIV
Acts 2:1 - 'When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place.'
Now you'd think there was not much of a difference between the versus, but there is one difference. The word accord is missing in the NIV version, and that changes the meaning of the entire verse.
According to Webster's dictionary, the word accord means to bring into agreement.
So, without the word accord in the NIV version, that would mean that they were not in agreement with each other. That changes the entire message, does it not?
So if it were truly the words of Jesus, why would there be different versions of the verse and the Bible?
If God were all powerful and omnipotent, why would he allow these kinds of variations and interpretations of his words? It seems to me that it would be simpler to keep the Bible to only one version and make it very clear to everybody so that there would be no misunderstandings and misuses of the Bible. OR ELSE!
So you see, a lot of faith is needed to accept the Bible is of the word of God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by Modulous, posted 09-20-2010 6:50 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 239 by Modulous, posted 09-20-2010 7:52 PM Tram law has not replied
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Tram law
Member (Idle past 4817 days)
Posts: 283
From: Weed, California, USA
Joined: 08-15-2010


Message 271 of 276 (590968)
11-11-2010 12:03 AM


Well, I had a realization the other day.
Some theists believe that atheism is impossible.
But in thinking about this I've come to a realization. This position actually undermines theism.
Theism has a need to make everybody convert and make everybody the same.
And the belief of atheism is impossible undermines this.
Because if atheism is impossible, then that means nobody has a lack of belief in God.
So that means we're saved, depending on whether you believe if people are saved by faith alone and do not need to do good works to keep your salvation.
And since we all believe in God, then that means there is no need to convert a person to theism, because we are all theists.
So that means they have no real reason to evangelize and go out to convert people.
Unless of course we must all worship God in one single way and have one single dogma for every single person on the face of this planet.
They say the devil is in the details.
But if you think about it, saying atheism is a lie or is impossible does actually undermine theism's need to go out and convert people.

Replies to this message:
 Message 272 by Panda, posted 11-11-2010 3:50 AM Tram law has not replied
 Message 273 by frako, posted 11-11-2010 4:54 AM Tram law has not replied

  
Tram law
Member (Idle past 4817 days)
Posts: 283
From: Weed, California, USA
Joined: 08-15-2010


Message 274 of 276 (591036)
11-11-2010 12:35 PM


Frako, please reread the post.
Your conclusions are wrong.
As I am an atheist. I am not a theist.

  
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