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Author Topic:   Problems with being an Atheist (or Evolutionist)
Nij
Member (Idle past 5002 days)
Posts: 239
From: New Zealand
Joined: 08-20-2010


Message 171 of 276 (581118)
09-13-2010 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by Dr Jack
09-13-2010 5:16 PM


The problem with religious history is not that bad things have been done in the name of God, it's that there's no sign of those who believe one thing or the other behaving any better than anyone else (with the exception of the Quakers who, frankly, rock on toast; seriously, has there ever been a group of people with such a consistent history of being on the right side of moral arguments?).
emphasis added
The Tibetan Buddhists? And behold, Buddhism is generally atheistic* too.
*In that belief in a god is not common nor really necessary.
Edited by Nij, : Fix coding.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Dr Jack, posted 09-13-2010 5:16 PM Dr Jack has not replied

  
Nij
Member (Idle past 5002 days)
Posts: 239
From: New Zealand
Joined: 08-20-2010


Message 180 of 276 (581524)
09-15-2010 10:50 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by crashfrog
09-15-2010 10:18 AM


Re: Atheism IS a belief
Hi crash, I would like to point out one thing:
Not all agnostics are atheists, although I would say a majority are: most theists are quite definite in their belief. Agnostics are people who don't think it's possible to know for sure. Atheists are people that don't believe a god exists. I, for example, am both. I know several people however, who are theist but agnostic. There are plenty of examples here of gnostic atheists and theists. All four combinations exist; being one does not imply being the other.
One can be a theist and still be agnostic: "I believe a god exists, despite there being no way to demonstrate that fact".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by crashfrog, posted 09-15-2010 10:18 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
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Nij
Member (Idle past 5002 days)
Posts: 239
From: New Zealand
Joined: 08-20-2010


Message 263 of 276 (587853)
10-21-2010 3:40 AM
Reply to: Message 260 by Damouse
10-21-2010 2:44 AM


People are and have been saying that strong atheists are not the only atheists around. Dr Adequate has provided multiple reasonings already to demonstrate that fact.
You have effectively been telling people the opposite: from what I can see, you have stated that all atheists are strong atheists or that equivalently atheism requires positive belief in the nonexistence of gods. For example:
[quote=Damouse]By not having a belief in a god of any flavor, you form a belief pertaining to a lack of god.[/qs]
An atheist holds to the belief that theistic conclusions are wrong, and therefor holds to the belief that there is no god.
  • I believe there is no god.
  • I do not believe in god.
    These are all ideas an atheist may have, and none of them are exclusive, even thought the first two express disbelief and belief about the same topic in equal measures.
  • Not so for any of these. Belief does not follow the law of excluded middle; that is, absence of one property does not and cannot conclude the presence of the opposite property. You are arguing that not being positive requires being negative; you completely ignore the neutral position.
    This is why you are getting the flak.
    Atheism only requires lack of belief in the existence of gods. Without any other modifier, one cannot tell whether they also believe in the nonexistence of gods or not.
    Only relatively recently in this thread have the modifier words been used with the word atheist. The majority of the usage was just the one word label.
    Because previously nobody was discussing the difference between strong and weak atheism. You brought up the subject -- again, after I thought the good Dr A had reasonably demonstrated to riVeRaT that it was not viable -- so people used the correct words to describe the ideas you were talking about to make what they were talking about unambiguous.
    Im assuming an atheist to introduce himself as just an atheist solely based on my personal experience and a touch of social etiquette. By no means do i think that a rule.
    And nobody has said otherwise. An atheist is an atheist regardless of whether they're 'strong' or 'weak', and most don't even consider the difference for the same reason they don't consider their atheism; they just don't need to.
    But you have tried to argue that by introducing themselves as atheists, they must also believe that no god exists, a position which is obviously deficit in etiquette: they could easily not believe that no god exists too.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 260 by Damouse, posted 10-21-2010 2:44 AM Damouse has replied

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