|
Author
|
Topic: The Meaning Of The Trinity
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
Message 740 of 1864 (900404)
10-27-2022 10:14 AM
|
Reply to: Message 736 by nwr
10-27-2022 9:58 AM
|
|
Re: Jewish chronicles and the big JC
nwr writes: For the record, I do not "support any and all abortions". Nor do I. Each case should be considered on its own merits. The Marines have a saying. "Kill 'em all and let God sort them out". I say that each case is unique. Some babies are better off never having lived. (for various reasons) Others should be allowed the right to life. But if so, the state must provide the means by which to raise them. Do you want your taxes going up for a kid you never knew? Liberals try and support everything by appropriating other people's money. They should not have this carte blanche.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 736 by nwr, posted 10-27-2022 9:58 AM | | nwr has seen this message but not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 744 by ringo, posted 10-27-2022 1:13 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied | | | Message 745 by Theodoric, posted 10-27-2022 5:41 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied | | | Message 746 by Taq, posted 10-27-2022 6:55 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 759 of 1864 (900622)
10-29-2022 3:54 PM
|
Reply to: Message 756 by ringo
10-28-2022 1:05 PM
|
|
Wrong Until Further Notice
ringo writes: I am honest. Paul was wrong. The hubris is strong in this one!  How about just a short list. Name 5 specific things that the Apostle Paul was wrong about.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 756 by ringo, posted 10-28-2022 1:05 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 761 by ringo, posted 10-30-2022 2:17 PM | | Phat has replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 762 of 1864 (900682)
10-30-2022 2:25 PM
|
Reply to: Message 761 by ringo
10-30-2022 2:17 PM
|
|
Re: Wrong Until Further Notice
Jesus may have been born after the fact, but His birth was simply the point at which He stepped out of eternity into time. Imagine the God of the universe...Creator of all seen and unseen (including all of your cultural and mythological gods, spaghetti monsters, bigfeets, and numerous deities of various cultures originating in the minds of men) being a vulnerable human baby who poops his pants and has to be cared for by a Mother and Father? No wonder scripture shows us numerous attempts to wipe him out before he was even born.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 761 by ringo, posted 10-30-2022 2:17 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 763 by ringo, posted 10-30-2022 2:41 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 775 of 1864 (900914)
11-02-2022 10:46 AM
|
Reply to: Message 774 by candle2
11-02-2022 10:31 AM
|
|
Re: Jewish chronicles and the big JC
Ostensibly the other angels and Satan of course. Kinda like in Job. Other apologists say that God was speaking to His own Trinity, but I like the first explanation better.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 774 by candle2, posted 11-02-2022 10:31 AM | | candle2 has not replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 776 of 1864 (900918)
11-02-2022 10:54 AM
|
Reply to: Message 772 by candle2
11-01-2022 2:11 PM
|
|
Re: Jewish chronicles and the big JC
I see where your argument is going.
Here it is proposed that Melchizedek is Jesus Christ. Melchizedek, as Jesus Christ, lives, preaches, dies and is resurrected, in a gnostic perspective. The Coming of the Son of God Melchizedek speaks of his return to bring peace, supported by God, and he is a priest-king who dispenses justice. Jesus was in the beginning with God and was God. Ringo disagrees and claims that in the beginning was the Word (message) which ringo has perverted into a socialist ideal. He defends his assertion by claiming that Jesus told us to give it all up. I finally agreed with him in that we are to give up all of our heart and mind to the Lord, but ringo claims that it is our stuff that God wants us to spread among all people (like good little socialists.) Of course, I disagree with his assessment that a true Christian needs to give up all materialistic gain of himself and spread it among the people. Likely, ringo was influenced by Mennonite teaching and yet is now no longer a Christian. He uses this excuse to defend why he himself need not give it all up. In other words, ringo tries to play both sides of the argument.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 772 by candle2, posted 11-01-2022 2:11 PM | | candle2 has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 777 by candle2, posted 11-02-2022 11:23 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied | | | Message 784 by ringo, posted 11-02-2022 3:33 PM | | Phat has replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
(1)
| |
| |
| |
|
|
Message 791 of 1864 (900964)
11-03-2022 7:42 AM
|
Reply to: Message 788 by candle2
11-02-2022 7:34 PM
|
|
Re: Simplistically Speaking
Candle, this line of reasoning is emotionally driven and not very honest. Dwise1 has already explained how parties change over time. Your irrational focus on the Democrats as the party of evil sounds as irrational as some critics' insistence that Republicans are the real villain and we would be better off without them. Both sides sling mud based on emotional overreaction. I suggest that we approach politics rationally or not at all.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 788 by candle2, posted 11-02-2022 7:34 PM | | candle2 has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 798 by candle2, posted 11-04-2022 9:42 AM | | Phat has replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 799 of 1864 (901056)
11-04-2022 11:00 AM
|
Reply to: Message 798 by candle2
11-04-2022 9:42 AM
|
|
Re: Simplistically Speaking
As a Christian, you are wasting far too much negative energy on politics and on villifying Dems. (They do the same thing with Republicans) Scripture tells us to bless those who curse us, turn the other cheek, and love our enemies. You are lumping a large group of individuals into an objective category. This is far too simplistic and juvenile for a man who purports to have the Holy Spirit. And I am preaching to myself as well, by the way.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 798 by candle2, posted 11-04-2022 9:42 AM | | candle2 has not replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 800 of 1864 (901060)
11-04-2022 11:15 AM
|
Reply to: Message 786 by ringo
11-02-2022 3:43 PM
|
|
Re: Jewish chronicles and the big JC
ringo, referring to Jesus writes: The one explanation that does NOT work is that He existed before He existed. Only if you do not believe that Jesus was God. (Or the ONLY human to ever be in perfect Communion with the One God.) He existed in Spirit before He was birthed in flesh. It's not Rocket Science.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 786 by ringo, posted 11-02-2022 3:43 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 801 by Theodoric, posted 11-04-2022 11:57 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied | | | Message 805 by ringo, posted 11-04-2022 12:46 PM | | Phat has replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 807 of 1864 (901101)
11-04-2022 2:58 PM
|
Reply to: Message 804 by ringo
11-04-2022 12:38 PM
|
|
Re: Jewish chronicles and the big JC
ringo writes: If Jesus had been around in Moses' time, why would He not appear to Moses Himself? Because Jesus had not as of yet a physical body. That happened at His birth. If He had had a body before He was born, He would not have even needed to be born. He could have just wandered in one day from the desert.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 804 by ringo, posted 11-04-2022 12:38 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 813 by ringo, posted 11-05-2022 11:42 AM | | Phat has replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 808 of 1864 (901102)
11-04-2022 3:05 PM
|
Reply to: Message 805 by ringo
11-04-2022 12:46 PM
|
|
Re: Jewish chronicles and the big JC
ringo writes: God is aleady a spirit. (So is the Holy Spirit, for that matter.) When Jesus was born, the spirit BECAME flesh. It was a transformation. Jesus did not exist until He became flesh. If Jesus was Gods one and only son, He most certainly did exist. Otherwise, your cockamamy explanation requires God to go and find a woman (a human woman at that) to have sex with in order to even have a son!
By analogy, a tree BECOMES a house. That does not mean that the house existed before it was built. We are talking Spirit. Not material lumber. If you were God, your son could and would exist the moment he became a gleam in his father's eye... What's more, your son would do what you yourself could not do. Die.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 805 by ringo, posted 11-04-2022 12:46 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 809 by Taq, posted 11-04-2022 3:33 PM | | Phat has replied | | | Message 815 by ringo, posted 11-05-2022 11:53 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 812 of 1864 (901119)
11-05-2022 1:35 AM
|
Reply to: Message 784 by ringo
11-02-2022 3:33 PM
|
|
Feisty Ringo Demands Answers
ringo writes: I'll ask you one more time: Why would I do what a fictional character tells me to do? Well then why do you believe that in the beginning was the message? Even before humans could even write or speak! Do you believe that the message predated humans?
And why WOULDN'T you do it if you really believed that character was real? Because I am honest with Jesus. I don't expect Him to smite me for disobedience but I DO expect to feel conviction. Eventually, I will change. And to be fair, I know of very few people... believers or nonbelievers...who would go anywhere near giving everything up. If that makes us all doomed goats so be it. And I'm going to ask Him to make you do it as well. It's not fair for you to skate. 
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 784 by ringo, posted 11-02-2022 3:33 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 817 by ringo, posted 11-05-2022 12:15 PM | | Phat has replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 814 of 1864 (901132)
11-05-2022 11:52 AM
|
Reply to: Message 813 by ringo
11-05-2022 11:42 AM
|
|
Some good questions
ringo writes: If Jesus was around at the time, was He a spirit? If so, what distinguished Him from the Holy Spirit or God the Spirit? Good question. One would think that the ONLY thing that distinguished Him was the body...
Why did He "need" to be born? Why couldn't He just "wander in one day from the desert"? Another good question. And I refuse to look up any apologetic answers. Let us marinate on this one for a while.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 813 by ringo, posted 11-05-2022 11:42 AM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 818 by ringo, posted 11-05-2022 12:17 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 816 of 1864 (901136)
11-05-2022 11:57 AM
|
Reply to: Message 813 by ringo
11-05-2022 11:42 AM
|
|
Why Not?
Eventually, I will change. And to be fair, I know of very few people... believers or nonbelievers...who would go anywhere near giving everything up. If that makes us all doomed goats so be it. And I'm going to ask Him to make you do it as well. It's not fair for you to skate. Add by edit. This brings up another point. If Jesus wandered in one day from the desert and healed many people, teaching His disciples to do the same, why on earth dint He just *make* everyone believe? Why did He even allow skepticism? Why did He give you the right to label Him fictitious and ignore Him?
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 813 by ringo, posted 11-05-2022 11:42 AM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 819 by ringo, posted 11-05-2022 12:23 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 820 of 1864 (901141)
11-05-2022 12:23 PM
|
Reply to: Message 817 by ringo
11-05-2022 12:15 PM
|
|
Re: Feisty Ringo Demands Answers
If you are so sure that Jesus is fictitious, that must make you infallible. And for the record, a gleam in God's eye is instant Creation. God either created Jesus (as JW's claim) before anything else (Michael The Arch Angel) or more likely God had the gleam ever since He existed. You cant expect God to follow the natural laws that humans do. When God imagines, He creates. When humans imagine, they merely dream and fantasize. In order to actually build a house out of a tree, one must plan, saw, pound nails, and know how to measure and level up the planks. God could simply bypass the tree. In fact, He built the church on the Rock of revelation given to Peter.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 817 by ringo, posted 11-05-2022 12:15 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 822 by ringo, posted 11-05-2022 12:38 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
|
Phat
Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
|
|
|
Message 827 of 1864 (901263)
11-07-2022 12:01 PM
|
Reply to: Message 823 by ringo
11-05-2022 12:43 PM
|
|
Re: Jewish chronicles and the big
Skeptical ringo writes: The Exodus is fiction. So say Satans Minions Mythicist Historians. But not all agree. Did the Exodus Never Happen? |
Christianity Today
quote:
Open up the popular magazine Biblical Archaeology Review today and you will find almost everyone questioning the Exodus account and a lot of the other biblical stories as well. In the July-August 1997 issue, a curious exchange takes place between Niels Peter Lemche and Thomas Thompson, on the biblical minimalist side, and two challengers to the minimalist position, William Dever and P. Kyle McCarter. What is revealing in the dialogue are the defensive tactics taken by one of the moderates, Dever, a professor at the University of Arizona and a leading authority on Syro-Palestinian archaeology (he long ago rejected the term "biblical archaeology"). "I agree with you that [the Book of] Joshua has little to do with any historical events," he says at one point. "If you guys think I—or the Israeli archaeologists—am looking for the Israelite conquest archaeologically, you're wrong. We've given that up. We've given up the patriarchs." After Dever has defended the likelihood of a united monarchy under David and Solomon (which is part of what makes him a moderate) and is attacked by Thompson for his motives in searching for and finding a gate at Gezer thought to have been built by Solomon, Dever retorts: "Tom, I don't care in the least whether Solomon ever existed. I'm probably more of a disbeliever than you. I don't really care about the tradition. I don't believe any of the myths." Finally, after having endured Thompson's innuendoes and attacks throughout the debate, Dever exclaims in sheer exasperation: "I do resent being called a fundamentalist."
Note how the motives of the minions are exposed as blatant attacks on all things that would support any Biblical narrative. These people...these atheists...have an ax to grind.
quote:
What is it that turns William Dever into a "fundamentalist" for seeing an association between a gate and the biblical account of Solomon? The answer, says James Hoffmeier of Wheaton College in Illinois, is summed up in one phrase: the hermeneutics of suspicion. If Albright had been able to convince a generation of scholars that the Bible's account of Israel's origin could be matched in general terms to the evidence from the digs, it was because the Bible was still considered "innocent until found guilty." The undoing of the Albright antidote to Wellhausen skepticism came when people like Lemche and Thompson began insisting that the Bible stories should be viewed as fables until indisputable evidence proved them to be historical. The accounts were now seen as fictional until proven factual, guilty until proven innocent
I've always said that the jury is still out. The article in CT concurs.
quote:
But the battle for Jericho, the Exodus, and the other stories of Israel's origins isn't over yet, says Hoffmeier, who has just published a monograph titled Israel in Egypt with Oxford University Press, and Kenneth Kitchen, a veteran ancient-languages expert at the University of Liverpool in England. It is just the beginning of round three.(...)Despite the current revisionist work, Hoffmeier and Kitchen are confident the future will side with those who take the Bible's history seriously.
candle2, check out the link. Ringo likely thinks he knows it all anyway, and likely won't read the article.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 823 by ringo, posted 11-05-2022 12:43 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 828 by Tangle, posted 11-07-2022 12:12 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied | | | Message 829 by ringo, posted 11-07-2022 12:17 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied | | | Message 830 by Theodoric, posted 11-07-2022 4:02 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
|
™ Version 4.2