Religion is Evil!

Gilgamesh, Actually, I recently watched a history channel holocaust film, that touched on the German people who were agnostic about what was happening to the Jews during WWII.Stephen

OK, Mike, do you actually mean to tell me that the ten Commandments are not that important to Christianity?

For me, Yesus words are more important.(Matthew 22:34-40)
The Greatest Commandment34Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:
36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself. 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

I think that it is inappropriate to refer to the trinity as "gods". The Tri-unity of God is a monotheistic concept, Stephen. At least in my belief.

Why are Christians so hung up trying to be monotheistic? Christian theology blatantly has three gods.

OK, Mr. Jack. I have heard the long winded argument against the Trinity from religious Witnesses like william scott, but as from you, why do you see Christianity as polytheistic?[This message has been edited by Phatboy, 02-26-2004]

Certainly - Christianity acknowledges three divine entities: God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I assume you'll not argue this point, but will argue that the three are not distinct?Let's look at what the bible says:Mark 15 v.34 (partial) "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" says Jesus on the cross. Interesting way to talk to yourself?Mark 16 v.19 "So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God."How could Jesus go 'up into heaven' if he is the same as God? How could he sit on the right hand of God if he is not the same as God?John 20 v. 21-22 "Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost""as my Father hath sent me" - not as I have come to you. Jesus is talking about God as if God is a seperate entity. "Receive ye the Holy Ghost" - not I leave you with my power - again, talking about a seperate entity.Jesus clearly and consistently talks about God as being seperate from himself.

I do not argue against the distinction. It is the same as how one views the sun in the sky, the light that reflects off the lake, and the heat on a hot day. We know that the Sun, the light, and the heat are distinct properties. We also know that these three properties originate from one source. So it is with God.

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Cop out from what?
Are you blaming me for someone elses atrocities?

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No.

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- I have already said - I detest what they done, in the name of Christianity. But I am afraid they have still failed to follow Christ's teachings.

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But who gets to decide if they were following Christ's teachings or not? You? Themselves? The prominent religious leaders of their times? The individual religious leaders? Religious leaders who preceded them or followed them?The reason it's a copout is because it's a way to automatically distance yourself from any behavior you don't like which was performed by people who were Christians.Look at it this way:The KKK is an American white supremecist group.At the height of their power and popularity, they had millions of members across the country and in all levels of government, and even enjoyed the public favor of US President Wilson, and candidate Truman was actually a member for a short time.Are we to now look back and tidily excuse and distance ourselves from their atrocities by saying, "They aren't/weren't real Americans because Americans believe in equality!"?Or do we ask ourselves, "What is it about America which allowed so many Americans to believe that the KKK was a good and just organization?"The KKK was also an explicitly Christian organization, as many white supremacist organizations are. It's similarly a cop-out to simply say that they aren't "real Christians", instead of examining what it is about Christianity which has allowed so many millions of people over the centuries to perpetrate atrocities in Christianity's name.

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Why then were the ten Commandments written in stone?
It is obvious that they are the greatest Commandments - it's a given.

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But didn't you just say that Phatboy doesn't have to follow the ten commandments because it's in the OT??

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A: " This would mean that killing is fine as long as it is justified/endorsed by god's decree. "

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Maybe, but why split hairs? We know the importance of not killing and loving our enemy.

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Considering how much killing is commanded by God in the Bible, and the fact that the OT is a rather large part of the Christian Bible, why is it so strange to you that some Christians interpret the Bible so differently from you that they consider certain killings justified?

The characteristics of the various 'God personas' are so distinctively different from eachother that is can be somewhat hard to see a direct connection. It is more of a family, where the individuals has extremely close ties, but are not the same person.Hence, Jesus has an unique personality, with abilities and limitations that are not ascribed to the concept of the Holy Spirit, for example.The concept of the trinity does not make much sense if you think of it in the God is exactly Jesus is exactly Holy Spirit is exactly God sense. I think this is the reason why some people like to visualize it as something more of a very very close family.From my personal reading of the Bible, I find the hardcore concept of the Trinity to be taking the idea a bit too far.[This message has been edited by Melchior, 02-26-2004]

The sun is not light, and is not heat.
Light is not the sun, and is not heat.
Heat is not the sun, and is not light.I'm not really following how your analogy demonstrates Christianity to be monotheistic.

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A TRUE Christian, of which perhaps 3 out of ten are, is a Christian due to impartation of the Holy Spirit. While not perfect, these sort of people do not knowingly sin in such a way as you describe.

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But back when the Crusades were happening, they didn't consider what they wete doing to be sinful. In fact, they believed they were doing God's work.Also, who gets to decide who those three "real Christians" out of ten are?You? Why are you qualified? How is anyone qualified to judge?

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I would say that Biblical scholars who themselves recognize the living Spirit of God would be the true judges of scriptural interpretation.

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Who gets to judge which scholars are "real" believers and which ones just think they are "real believers" but aren't?Are only 3 out of 10 Biblical scholars who also consider themselves Christian, actually real Christians?How can we tell? Who gets to judge?

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So you agree that religion pretty much influences morality?

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Of course. Religion is part of the culture and influences morality, both for good and bad.

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Since you are Agnostic, you must have studied other religions too. Did you find other religion that teaches love like this? (Just curious).

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While I have not doen an extensive seach of religions, mainly because I am not looking to become religious (I don't think we can know if God exists or not), but I am attracted to several:Buddhism is a wonderfully peaceful religion which teaches non-violence and love for all things.The Bahai faith is also very loving and non-violent, being based on equality and unity.

Actually, that's pretty typical for most branches of Christianity. "For Christ is the end of the law to those who believe..." That's why they're called an old testament and a new testament.

Light has different attributes than heat. When one needs warmth, one needs heat. When one needs to see, one needs light. The source of the light is the Sun. The source of Jesus Christ is His Father. The source of the heat is the sun. The source of the comforter,the Holy Spirit, is God. While some argue that God created Jesus, others see Jesus as an inner reality within Gods own character. Anyway, we have already had threads which debated the Trinity. My belief supports the Tri-unity of God to be expressed as a monotheistic Creator who expresses Himself in these differing personalities.