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Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Religion or Science - How do they compare? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
What is actually written is what I follow. You on the other hand don't.
You follow a cult. I don't. The Bible was directly and personally inspired by God, meaning the men who wrote it were guided by God. The Bible is a compilation of Spirit-inspired writings by God's own chosen prophets and apostles. The real question is how you got so misguided. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: We all know that isn’t true.
quote: Which is rather different from your traditional claim that God was the actual author. Which would be a surprising change if you could actually support that view from the Bible as you claimed. But of course we know you can’t. You can only cite men who misrepresent the Bible instead.
quote: Maybe he doesn’t think your traditions overrule the text of the Bible. I don't either. Perhaps you should try supporting your idea that they do ?
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: So you can’t find any ? Any verse in the Tanakh where the context clearly indicates that it means the Logos rather than the more conventional meaning would do.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: What is actually written is what I follow. You on the other hand don't. Now you know that is not true Faith, you have consistently denied the simple words actually written in the Bible as I have pointed out on numerous occasions. For example, you have denied that there are two creation myths in the Genesis fables and that the Gods described are different, the methods different, the order different and that the God in Genesis 2&3 is pretty much just learning on the job, fumbling, not honest or even rational. You have claimed that there is a "Fall" in the Bible while what actually is written says that man was elevated to be more like God.
Faith writes: The Bible was directly and personally inspired by God, meaning the men who wrote it were guided by God. Yet what is written in the Bible shows that they could not get the stories straight, kept expanding and elaborating on the tales, made prophecies that never came true as well as made factual errors.
Faith writes: The Bible is a compilation of Spirit-inspired writings by God's own chosen prophets and apostles. Again, you have never presented any evidence to support that assertion or in fact identified the writers of the stories.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
What is actually written is what I follow. You on the other hand don't. You just told us differently. You said that you follow a "traditional Christian interpretation". Or something like that. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
What is actually written, read correctly the way it is supposed to be read, is what the traditional interpretation reads.
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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What is actually written, read correctly the way it is supposed to be read, is what the traditional interpretation reads. If that were the case, you would be able to defend your position based on the text alone. But you cannot do that. You always fall back on, "well, some old dudes said it means X." You are absolutely the least logical person here. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
PaulK writes:
Read through Genesis 1 and just look at the number of times where it says God said let there be whatever the next act of creation was. The Hebrews used the idea that God spoke the world into existence. That is the Word of God which metaphorically includes God’s wisdom, creativity, nature etc.
So you can’t find any ? Any verse in the Tanakh where the context clearly indicates that it means the Logos rather than the more conventional meaning would do.quote: Then we come to the Gospel of John Chap 1.
quote: That is very different than how the term is used in this passage from 1 Kings 12. quote:If you notice too, when John uses it Word is spelled with a capital W whereas in 1st Kings it is spelled with a small w. He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
I note that Genesis 1 does not actually support your claim - you must read John into it for that. And of course, I already knew that John had the idea of the Logos in it.
However, 1 Kings 12 clearly proves my point since it uses God’s word in a sense where the ordinary meaning of word is more appropriate than the Logos.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Funny, I've said that to you many times, how you are the least logical person here. Is tit for tatting me that satisfying to you?
Those "old dudes" are all the big thinkers of the Christian tradition, plus many in today's Reformed circles, but here I'm up against the most amazing collection of "liberal Christians" I've ever seen assembled in one supposedly neutral place. I've presented my views many many times and there's no way anybody here is going to accept them because it's all against your own liberal views, so there's no point in pursuing it any further. I continue to be astonished but oh well.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: At least NoNukes had pretty good evidence, which is more than can be said for you. Your irrationally is one of your major handicaps here, but of course you would rather make false attacks on anyone who disagrees with you than fix the problem.
quote: On one side we have you citing your opinions and calling them traditional - you don’t even do much to support that claim. On the other side we have the Bible. I think that anyone who calls themselves Christian really ought to be going with the Bible. Why don’t you ?
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
PaulK writes:
OK. Here are the original 2 posts on this.
I note that Genesis 1 does not actually support your claim - you must read John into it for that. And of course, I already knew that John had the idea of the Logos in it.However, 1 Kings 12 clearly proves my point since it uses God’s word in a sense where the ordinary meaning of word is more appropriate than the Logos. GDR writes:
When the Biblical writers use the term "Word of God" it is not referring to the Scriptures. It is referring to the Logos and can be also translated as the "wisdom" of God. In Genesis it metaphorically talks about God speaking the world into existence, (such as in God said let there be light etc. ) and so it is in reference to that. The "Word of God" put another way is the essence, the wisdom and the power of God when used in the Bible.PaulK writes:
There is a big difference in the way it is used. When it uses the term Word of God with a capital W for Word where the 3 words form a noun on their own, it is quite different from this quote from Kings 1 but this word of God using a small w for word, and the word is a noun on its own with the of God part of the phrase acting as an adjective. Or it might refer to the words attributed to God in the Bible. While the Bible never claims divine authorship it does have sections that are claim to be God’s words, as set down by the human writers.However, you agree that John is referring to the Word as Logos so the point is pretty much moot anyway. He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
It must be nice to be one of the majority and always have someone who will back you up.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Aside from the fact that capitalisation is a feature of the translation we were talking about the idea of the word of God in general. Even you didn’t consistently use capitalisation. More importantly it started with my reply to Faith which was certainly dealing with lower-case word of God verses like Isaiah 40:8.
If you are going to consider the context you need to consider all of it.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
If I’m part of the majority it’s probably because I have truth and reason on my side. You should try it.
Now are you going to make a rational point or just whine that you are losing because your entire case consists of calling your position traditional ?
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