Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 52 (9178 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: Anig
Upcoming Birthdays: Theodoric
Post Volume: Total: 918,077 Year: 5,334/9,624 Month: 359/323 Week: 203/160 Day: 20/19 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Religion or Science - How do they compare?
Phat
Member
Posts: 18419
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 2 of 882 (831469)
04-18-2018 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by RAZD
04-18-2018 8:21 AM


Its about the individual human and what they utilize
This reminds me of an interesting blog post that I read recently.
Is There Evidence for Easter? A Scientist’s List. written by Dr. S. Joshua Swamidass MD PhD
His blog ends with this question:
quote:
So, we are left with an invitation. Will we too believe? Will we be curious? Will we respond with trust?
If you say that science trusts nothing, you need to differentiate between science and some scientists, such as the one who wrote this blog.
Dr. S. Joshua Swamidass MD PhD is a physician, scientist, and Assistant Professor of Laboratory and Genomic Medicine at Washington University in Saint Louis.
Science and Faith exist in peace in my own mind. I utilize science in order to hone my diet and manage my addictions, but I also realize that I need Faith in order to overcome some of the cognitive dissonance found in daily living.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by RAZD, posted 04-18-2018 8:21 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by PaulK, posted 04-18-2018 2:10 PM Phat has replied
 Message 6 by RAZD, posted 04-19-2018 4:37 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 8 by dwise1, posted 04-20-2018 12:47 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 11 by ringo, posted 04-20-2018 12:08 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18419
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 4 of 882 (831478)
04-18-2018 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by PaulK
04-18-2018 2:10 PM


Re: Its about the individual human and what they utilize
I was unaware that he needed help. Please explain.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by PaulK, posted 04-18-2018 2:10 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by PaulK, posted 04-18-2018 4:01 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18419
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 12 of 882 (831582)
04-21-2018 5:40 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by ringo
04-20-2018 12:08 PM


Communion 101
...That "invitation" sounds like, "Either come to our wedding or go bowling."
And it depends if you know who the Groom is and who the Bride is.
Bowling isn't really that fulfilling.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by ringo, posted 04-20-2018 12:08 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by ringo, posted 04-21-2018 11:50 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18419
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 18 of 882 (831655)
04-22-2018 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by PaulK
04-22-2018 6:54 AM


Re: Compatibility of science and religion
PaulK,responding to GDR writes:
...aside from the fact that religions don’t even need any sort of God, let alone one responsible for humans, the religious attitude far too often opposes understanding in the name of dogma. And that very much includes you.
Remember that by definition religious "understanding" does not require nor even seek evidence in the way that science has to do. Belief involves chosen ideology that supports dogma.
There is a lot of revisionism, but whether it constitutes revelation is far from obvious.
Granted that we will be unlikely to arrive at a consensus as to what is obvious without resorting to embracing either belief or evidence as the gold standard.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by PaulK, posted 04-22-2018 6:54 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by PaulK, posted 04-22-2018 4:23 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 20 by ringo, posted 04-23-2018 11:53 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18419
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 21 of 882 (831715)
04-23-2018 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by ringo
04-23-2018 11:53 AM


Re: Compatibility of science and religion
n other words, "Park your understanding at the door," is pretty much the basis of faith.
Not at all. What I am saying is that you cant expect evidence or the scientific method to corroborate your faith.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by ringo, posted 04-23-2018 11:53 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by ringo, posted 04-23-2018 1:31 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18419
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 37 of 882 (831967)
04-28-2018 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Tangle
04-28-2018 3:27 AM


Re: Compatibility of science and religion
I don't even know why they bother at all. If it was my belief I'd just claim it as a belief, why the hell try to rationalize it?
Good advice!

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Tangle, posted 04-28-2018 3:27 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18419
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 60 of 882 (832155)
04-30-2018 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Faith
04-29-2018 4:20 AM


Picking Sermons To Critique
I started out by picking a sermon by Dr.Dan Olinger titled Absence of Contradiction, Part 1.
He picks a list from infidels.org, taken primarily from the KJV, and found 69 contradictions with which to provide a basis for this particular sermon. I expect some bias from this preacher, but am giving him a fair listen.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Faith, posted 04-29-2018 4:20 AM Faith has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18419
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 61 of 882 (832157)
04-30-2018 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by PaulK
04-29-2018 4:36 AM


Transcripts Are Difficult
I attempted to find a transcript for the sermon that I picked, but found that transcripts cost $50.00!!!
I then went to the church website but so far have not found any transcripts anywhere. This makes it rather difficult for us to discuss these things.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by PaulK, posted 04-29-2018 4:36 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by PaulK, posted 04-30-2018 11:13 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18419
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 82 of 882 (832415)
05-03-2018 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by ringo
05-03-2018 11:50 AM


Re: On "Original Sin" and "The Fall"
Apart from becoming more aware of the differences, how did they in any way become more like God? And do we even have a clue as to how God was? All we have are human stories.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by ringo, posted 05-03-2018 11:50 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by PaulK, posted 05-03-2018 12:07 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 84 by ringo, posted 05-03-2018 12:17 PM Phat has replied
 Message 93 by NoNukes, posted 05-04-2018 9:35 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18419
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 85 of 882 (832454)
05-04-2018 4:42 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by ringo
05-03-2018 12:17 PM


Re: On "Original Sin" and "The Fall"
so who is "us"?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by ringo, posted 05-03-2018 12:17 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by jar, posted 05-04-2018 6:28 AM Phat has replied
 Message 95 by ringo, posted 05-04-2018 11:44 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18419
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 98 of 882 (832482)
05-04-2018 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by ringo
05-04-2018 11:44 AM


Re: On "Original Sin" and "The Fall"
ringo writes:
- i.e. the Lord God - and whomsoever He was speaking to. The text implies that they were His equals.
So because the book says so, you would conclude that at least in that case, God considered some audience somewhere as his equals??? You could start a whole new religion with that kind of thinking!

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by ringo, posted 05-04-2018 11:44 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by jar, posted 05-04-2018 12:55 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 100 by ringo, posted 05-04-2018 1:01 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18419
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 107 of 882 (832570)
05-05-2018 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by ringo
05-04-2018 1:01 PM


Revising The Book
Phat writes:
So because the book says so, you would conclude that at least, in that case, God considered some audience somewhere as his equals???
ringo writes:
Why would you reject what the Book says in favour of what some goober says?
Because those were Bronze Age goobers who had limited knowledge of reality. Todays goobers have a better grasp of reality in most cases. We have established that the book was written, edited, and redacted by humans. I maintain that today's humans are as capable of writing about God as any were back then.
Phat writes:
You could start a whole new religion with that kind of thinking!
Ringo writes:
A religion that actually pays attention to its Book?
There is no sin at revising the teachings in light of new understanding. We do have a few major questions to guide us...namely:
  • Did God exist before humans or did humans make God up?
  • Is God simply some character that makes mistakes and needs correcting? Though a case can be made for this based on the old book, I certainly would write that type of absurd thinking out of any revised book. What good is a God if humans themselves can correct Him?

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 100 by ringo, posted 05-04-2018 1:01 PM ringo has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 108 by ringo, posted 05-05-2018 1:09 PM Phat has replied
     Message 224 by Aussie, posted 05-16-2018 10:55 AM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18419
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 109 of 882 (832590)
    05-05-2018 2:31 PM
    Reply to: Message 108 by ringo
    05-05-2018 1:09 PM


    Re: Revising The Book
    ringo writes:
    Our new understanding is that many of the events described in the Bible never happened - e.g. the resurrection.
    Speak for yourself. I see no evidence that mainstream science has rejected the resurrection.
    Which is why our new understanding doesn't require Him.
    Perhaps you don't.
    It's your loss.
    What would really be cool is if you decided to be a real contrarian and argue for His existence for a change!

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 108 by ringo, posted 05-05-2018 1:09 PM ringo has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 111 by Paboss, posted 05-06-2018 3:06 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 114 by ringo, posted 05-06-2018 2:11 PM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18419
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 115 of 882 (832630)
    05-06-2018 3:04 PM
    Reply to: Message 114 by ringo
    05-06-2018 2:11 PM


    Re: Revising The Book
    ringo writes:
    You can't present a coherent argument for the existence of God - you're always forced to fall back on belief - so what makes you think I could?
    Well, you do have a point. Faith is faced with the same dilemma over in the fossils thread. She tries to make the argument that there are facts that support creationism but is embroiled in an endless argument over what facts they are.
    All that I will defend...a point that has been challenged many times---is that No God is not the default position.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 114 by ringo, posted 05-06-2018 2:11 PM ringo has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 116 by ringo, posted 05-06-2018 3:11 PM Phat has replied
     Message 117 by jar, posted 05-06-2018 4:37 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18419
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 118 of 882 (832645)
    05-07-2018 6:43 AM
    Reply to: Message 116 by ringo
    05-06-2018 3:11 PM


    Looking At The Next Decade
    ringo writes:
    Isn't no unicorns the default position? Isn't no fairies the default position?
    People have no reason to need such creatures (or imaginations).
    ringo writes:
    No is always the position until there is some reason to think yes.
    Arguably, many people do in fact think yes. While unicorns and fairies are not part of the popular imagination, God, Creator of all seen and unseen is. Moreover, many believe that such a character can be communicated with through the human character of Jesus Christ, which many also believe lives eternally. My point is that there is no majority that thinks or imagines No. Despite tangles fervant hopes to the contrary, Christianity is not dying a slow death anytime soon.
    In fact, evidence suggests that the reality of the next decade will provide even more reasons to have a reason or a need for a Creator. Humans can't seem to get out of their own way.
    The U.S. debt is an unsolvable crisis Once people begin to face the pains of the future and see the reality of China crushing the US role as global superpower, I predict that at least in the US, Christianity will see a huge upsurge, and the public will again turn to the church to help them get what government will no longer be able to provide.
    Science will never die, thankfully---and we will need that also. With limited money, people will find that logic, reason, and reality won't satisfy their demands and that prayer will again be the preferred solution...as well as social communion.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 116 by ringo, posted 05-06-2018 3:11 PM ringo has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 119 by jar, posted 05-07-2018 7:30 AM Phat has not replied
     Message 120 by ringo, posted 05-07-2018 12:08 PM Phat has replied

      
    Newer Topic | Older Topic
    Jump to:


    Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

    ™ Version 4.2
    Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024