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Understanding through Discussion


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Author Topic:   Religion or Science - How do they compare?
ringo
Member (Idle past 519 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 11 of 882 (831538)
04-20-2018 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Phat
04-18-2018 11:14 AM


Re: Its about the individual human and what they utilize
So, we are left with an invitation. Will we too believe? Will we be curious? Will we respond with trust?
Belief/trust is the opposite of curiosity, isn't it? That "invitation" sounds like, "Either come to our wedding or go bowling."

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Phat, posted 04-18-2018 11:14 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Phat, posted 04-21-2018 5:40 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 519 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 13 of 882 (831595)
04-21-2018 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Phat
04-21-2018 5:40 AM


Re: Communion 101
Phat writes:
Bowling isn't really that fulfilling.
I don't like either bowling or weddings.
I had a good friend once. Both of us were really bad at bowling but we went a few times with groups of people. I would have gone anywhere with her, maybe even a wedding.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Phat, posted 04-21-2018 5:40 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 519 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 20 of 882 (831706)
04-23-2018 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Phat
04-22-2018 4:10 PM


Re: Compatibility of science and religion
Phat writes:
Remember that by definition religious "understanding" does not require nor even seek evidence in the way that science has to do.
quote:
Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In other words, "Park your understanding at the door," is pretty much the basis of faith.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Phat, posted 04-22-2018 4:10 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Phat, posted 04-23-2018 1:24 PM ringo has replied
 Message 23 by Faith, posted 04-23-2018 2:32 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 519 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 22 of 882 (831720)
04-23-2018 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Phat
04-23-2018 1:24 PM


Re: Compatibility of science and religion
Phat writes:
What I am saying is that you cant expect evidence or the scientific method to corroborate your faith.
I just pointed out that the Bible tells you to park your understanding at the door.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Phat, posted 04-23-2018 1:24 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 519 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 26 of 882 (831762)
04-24-2018 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Faith
04-23-2018 2:32 PM


Re: Compatibility of science and religion
Faith writes:
we have God who is omniscient and willing to guide us to the truth
What we have is shamans - e.g. Bible commentators - who are eager and willing to guide us. But they too are fallen. It makes no difference how perfect The Source is, as long as all of the interpreters are fallen.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Faith, posted 04-23-2018 2:32 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 519 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 65 of 882 (832334)
05-02-2018 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Faith
05-02-2018 1:34 PM


Re: Compatibility of science and religion
Faith writes:
I appreciate being able to explain all those things in terms of fallenness. I'm not sure exactly why you object to it.
It isn't Biblical.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Faith, posted 05-02-2018 1:34 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 519 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 81 of 882 (832406)
05-03-2018 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by Faith
05-03-2018 12:57 AM


Re: On "Original Sin" and "The Fall"
Faith writes:
In any case what we originally were meant to be shines through this doctrine....
But there were no lost abilities. Adam and Eve gained abilities (the knowledge of good and evil) and became more like God.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Faith, posted 05-03-2018 12:57 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by Phat, posted 05-03-2018 12:03 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 519 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 84 of 882 (832424)
05-03-2018 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Phat
05-03-2018 12:03 PM


Re: On "Original Sin" and "The Fall"
Phat writes:
Apart from becoming more aware of the differences, how did they in any way become more like God?
God said it:
quote:
Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil....
Why do you need more than that?
Phat writes:
And do we even have a clue as to how God was? All we have are human stories.
All you will ever have is human stories and human ideas about God. What's your point?

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Phat, posted 05-03-2018 12:03 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by Phat, posted 05-04-2018 4:42 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 519 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 95 of 882 (832478)
05-04-2018 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by Phat
05-04-2018 4:42 AM


Re: On "Original Sin" and "The Fall"
Phat writes:
so who is "us"?
"Us" is the speaker,
quote:
Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us....
- i.e. the Lord God - and whomsoever He was speaking to. The text implies that they were His equals.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Phat, posted 05-04-2018 4:42 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Phat, posted 05-04-2018 12:45 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 519 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 96 of 882 (832479)
05-04-2018 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by Faith
05-04-2018 9:53 AM


Re: On "Original Sin" and "The Fall"
Faith writes:
Only according to your illiterate way of reading it.
Don't confuse literate with literal. But of course, your view of the Bible is neither.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Faith, posted 05-04-2018 9:53 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by Faith, posted 05-04-2018 1:18 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 519 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 100 of 882 (832484)
05-04-2018 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Phat
05-04-2018 12:45 PM


Re: On "Original Sin" and "The Fall"
Phat writes:
So because the book says so, you would conclude that at least in that case, God considered some audience somewhere as his equals???
Why would you reject what the Book says in favour of what some goober says?
Phat writes:
You could start a whole new religion with that kind of thinking!
A religion that actually pays attention to its Book?

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Phat, posted 05-04-2018 12:45 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by Phat, posted 05-05-2018 12:49 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 519 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 103 of 882 (832488)
05-04-2018 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Faith
05-04-2018 1:18 PM


Re: On "Original Sin" and "The Fall"
Faith writes:
Wrong as usual.
So you're saying that confusing literal with literate is a good thing?

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Faith, posted 05-04-2018 1:18 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by Faith, posted 05-04-2018 1:25 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 519 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 106 of 882 (832494)
05-04-2018 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by Faith
05-04-2018 1:25 PM


Re: On "Original Sin" and "The Fall"
Faith writes:
Wrong as usual.
I said you shouldn't confuse literal with literate and you said I was wrong - suggesting that you think you should confuse them.
You could at least try to simulate an intelligent reply.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Faith, posted 05-04-2018 1:25 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 519 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 108 of 882 (832576)
05-05-2018 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by Phat
05-05-2018 12:49 PM


Re: Revising The Book
Phat writes:
Because those were Bronze Age goobers who had limited knowledge of reality. Todays goobers have a better grasp of reality in most cases.
Then why do today's goobers reject reality in deference to what the Bronze Age goobers wrote?
Phat writes:
There is no sin at revising the teachings in light of new understanding.
Our new understanding is that many of the events described in the Bible never happened - e.g. the resurrection.
Phat writes:
What good is a God if humans themselves can correct Him?
Exactly. Which is why our new understanding doesn't require Him.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Phat, posted 05-05-2018 12:49 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by Phat, posted 05-05-2018 2:31 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 519 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 114 of 882 (832627)
05-06-2018 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by Phat
05-05-2018 2:31 PM


Re: Revising The Book
Phat writes:
I see no evidence that mainstream science has rejected the resurrection.
Science rejects the idea of resurrection, period. You knew that, didn't you?
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
Which is why our new understanding doesn't require Him.
Perhaps you don't.
Your claim was that modern apologists know better than the Bronze Age Bible authors. This isn't about me; it's about your apologist sources. They have essentially apologized God out of the equation.
Phat writes:
What would really be cool is if you decided to be a real contrarian and argue for His existence for a change!
I could argue for an alien race that terra-formed our earth and influenced the development of everything in it. I don't think anything beyond that is remotely plausible. You can't present a coherent argument for the existence of God - you're always forced to fall back on belief - so what makes you think I could?

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Phat, posted 05-05-2018 2:31 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by Phat, posted 05-06-2018 3:04 PM ringo has replied
 Message 878 by Phat, posted 08-29-2018 9:38 AM ringo has replied

  
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