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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Tension of Faith | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes:
I did. Resurrection means rising from the dead. It doesn't have special Christian connotations that some denominations accept and others don't. You can pretend that Jesus was special but you can't pretend that the word resurrection applies only to Him.
Instead of just saying that I got it wrong can you tell us how you have it right?
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes:
Yes. He rose from the dead. That's what the word means. Just Google "Resurrection of Lazarus".
Would you say that Lazarus was resurrected? GDR writes:
Yes. That's what the word means. We don't usually use it in that context; we usually use it for a miraculous event - but the resurrection of Lazarus was no more or less miraculous than the resurrection of Jesus.
Would you say that someone who dies on the operating table and is brought back to life is resurrected. GDR writes:
Resurrection is resurrection.
Do you see any differences in the Biblical account of the resurrection of Jesus and Lazarus being brought back to life?
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You're looking at it backwards. The belief is not the cause of the deeds. The deeds are a symptom of the belief.
... believe...then do.quote:You can be a Muslim or a Buddhist or an atheist and do His will. You can be a Christian and not do His will. The only belief that matters is belief in doing the deeds.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Humans are social animals. Our consciences evolved as a mechanism to foster the survival of the species. Unfortunately, religions often try to outsource conscience to an alien overlord.
But why is it important to you to do these deeds?
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes:
I'm not saying that the resurrection of Jesus wasn't different from the resurrection of Lazarus. I'm saying that your quibbling about the meaning of the word is wrong. Paul may have added a different spin to Jesus' resurrection but he doesn't get to dictate what English words mean.
It wasn't simply rising form the dead to only continue aging and die again later.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes:
I really don't care how some people interpret resurrection in the Bible. As I said, just Google "resurrection of Lazarus". You'll find that other people do use the word "resurrection" in reference to Lazarus.
I found this on the internet which explains far better than I can what is meant by resurrection in the Bible, so I thought I'd send it along as well.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
quote:So nothing about Jesus at all.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
And you know darn well that I don't put any stock in "implications". I just go by what the Bible says.
You know darn well what the implication is.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes:
Why does it need confirmation?
Jesus' life confirms that passage. GDR writes:
The point is right in your own signature: God doesn't require you to believe in Jesus.
I'm afraid I don't get your point.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes:
It's your signature. You tell me. If your own signature says that Jesus isn't required, why do you claim He is?
What do you mean by require. Required for what?
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes:
My point was to point out what your signature says. I agree that belief in Jesus isn't necessary for that, although I do believe that it sure helps. Is that your point? You have a habit of treating your beliefs as fact - e.g. your distinction between resurrection and resurrection. It's like pulling teeth trying to get you to admit something is just your belief.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes:
You insisted that Lazarus was not resurrected. I agreed that there were differences between his resurrection and Jesus' - but a resurrection is still a resurrection.
As far as the debate about the use of resurrection it is really clear in the Bible that what happened to Jesus was quite distinct from what happened to Lazarus and I think you said that you agreed with that. GDR writes:
It's you turning a minor observation on my part into a debate, the same as you did with the word resurrection. You could have just said, "Yes, you're right."
My signature is simply a quote from the Bible. It isn't me making an absolute statement.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
So you think Jesus said, "Inasmuch as ye have done it reluctantly unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."
You need personal responsibility...I reluctantly embrace it.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
But you're not asking how high. You're saying it's more important to believe Jesus said it than to do it. You think that if Jesus says "jump" I ask how high? I'm as rebellious as the next guy... Suppose He was saying, "Duck!" Does it matter who says it? Or should you just duck before you get your head blown off?
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
Pascal was Catholic. When he talked about unbelievers, he was referring to you.
I've quoted Pascal on this before....
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