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Author
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Topic: Contradictions between Genesis 1-2
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Force
Inactive Member
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purpledawn, You're missing the point. The point I was making is that g1 and g2 contradict each other. Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given. Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given.
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Force
Inactive Member
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Re: Got the Point
purpledawn, the interpretation of the contradictions of Genesis chapters 1 and 2 is not part of this thread. Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given.
Thank you
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Force
Inactive Member
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Message 202 of 308 (440546)
12-13-2007 4:21 PM
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Reply to: Message 200 by JB1740
12-13-2007 8:07 AM
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Re: On text
JB1740,
JB1740 writes:
But there's always error associated with the observations.
If I observed a air plan crash my observation would be a fact but however the report on the air plan crashing would have to be interpreted. The error is in the interpretation not the observation.
jb1740 writes: Here the word "just" is where the error lies. The sentence, as written, does not ensure that I will interpret "just" in the same manner you do. With this amount of information, I don't have any way of determining how much time "just" represents. Actually, I think "before" can be interpreted as well.
You're interpreting the fact but however the fact is a fact.
JB1740 writes:
The act of putting quotes around the word rock shows that you understand that the word requires interpretation. I contend, however, that even if you remove the quotes the word rock requires interpretation. Your definition of rock and mine might be different, and indeed, I would take the odds that they are. Not only that, but this sentence, as written, allows for interpretations in space and time. Where are you taking about the a rock existing? That might be debatable. When are you talking about a rock existing? That might also be open to scrutiny. So, yes, it is a "fact" that a rock exists, but there is absolutely error involved in this fact. I need to interpret various aspects of this sentence and there's no ensuring that I'm going to hit your precise meaning.
To be honest with you we are going off topic so I will stop here. I have made my point and that is: facts are facts and facts are not interpretations but however they are observations.
Thank you
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 200 by JB1740, posted 12-13-2007 8:07 AM | | JB1740 has not replied |
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Force
Inactive Member
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Re: Got the Point
purpledawn, The verses themself contradict eachother therefor that is substantial enough information to claim they contradict eachother. If you want to observe the evidence feel free to read Genesis 1 and 2. What is the issue? the interpretation that Genesis 2:4-25 is the sixth day of creation in Genesis 1 is exactly that, an interpretation but however the contradictions do not need to be interpreted(they are there). Thus my OP has not been refuted. The issue of Genesis 2 being the sixth day of creation could be true, I suppose, but however it does not change the fact that they contradict each other. The reasons of why or why not Genesis 1 and 2 contradict each other is off topic. The only topic here is that Genesis 1 and 2 contradict each other; which brings this thread to an early close. Bye. Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given. Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given. Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given. Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given. Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given. Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given.
Thank you
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 203 by purpledawn, posted 12-13-2007 4:36 PM | | purpledawn has not replied |
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Force
Inactive Member
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OFF TOPIC
purpledawn,
tthzr3 writes:
You're missing the point. The point I was making is that g1 and g2 contradict each other and in order for them to support each other, not contradict each other, the order needs to be the same. Hence: no contradiction.
purpledawn writes:
He needs to support why the order needs to be the same. What evidence does he have that the stories are supposed to support each other and why the order need to be the same in order to do that.
You're taking the word "support" entirely out of the context. The context of the word "support" above was reletive to the contradictions in Genesis 1-2. The intention of this thread, originally, was to determine the "plausibility of two creation stories in the Torah" through indications found in Genesis 1 and 2. However, the admin decided he didn't like my original "PNT" and asked me to change the words used which caused this thread to flow in a different direction. I can understand your confusion but it is not the topic to discuss why there is contradictions in Genesis 1-2 but only to learn about the contradictions in Genesis 1-2. However, I decided that I will oblige your request, above, below.  I do find it important to expect the stories in the Bible, especially the Torah, to read with a sense of accountability due to the fact that the "inspiration to write them" came directly from God. I mean, inspiration, to mean that, the men who wrote the stories of the Bible, were not mere men but ofcourse prophets and desciples of the most high God. We must also consider that these knowledgeable prophets and desciples of God new the law? If you consider how well versed these prophets/desciples of God were in the way of God, ofcourse, they were aware of the 9th commandment. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. per Exodus 20:16 So, since the Prophets/Deciples of God are the authors of Biblical scripture and are considered the "witnesses of God" they must not bear false witness against God? I don't think so, and as such, we must consider that due to the fact that Genesis 1-2 contradict each other in several verses, to mean, that they don't support each other. Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given. Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given. Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given. Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given.
Thank you
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Force
Inactive Member
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off topic
purpledawn, Please read post 211 I have updated it for you. Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given. Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given. Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given.
Thank you
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 210 by purpledawn, posted 12-14-2007 1:40 PM | | purpledawn has not replied |
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Force
Inactive Member
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imageinvisible, I am sorry image but Ringo is correct.
Thank you
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Force
Inactive Member
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Message 225 of 308 (440889)
12-15-2007 2:35 AM
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..bump Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given.
Thank you
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Force
Inactive Member
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Re: Reminder of the Topic
...bump Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given. Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given. Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given.
Thank you
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 226 by AdminPhat, posted 12-15-2007 2:37 AM | | AdminPhat has not replied |
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Force
Inactive Member
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OFF TOPIC
Purpledawn, Your interpretation is obviosly based on a personal agenda but however the stories in the Bible are "accounts" written by prophets and deciples of God hence they must be interpreted literally. I have supplied the evidence for that but however you have not refuted it with any countering evidence except a personal opinion. REF: http:// EvC Forum: Contradictions between Genesis 1-2 --> EvC Forum: Contradictions between Genesis 1-2 http:// EvC Forum: Contradictions between Genesis 1-2 --> EvC Forum: Contradictions between Genesis 1-2 Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given. Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given.
Thank you
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Force
Inactive Member
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Re: Personal Opinion
purpledawn, When I first read Genesis, as a Christian, I interpreted Genesis 1-2 to have only one creation story which was written in Genesis 1,2:1-3. However, I have adopted many interpretations of Genesis 1-3, since all the confusion, I have determined that Genesis 1-3 are not actually creation accounts but mere creation stories. The only point of this thread, originally, was to discuss the indications that Genesis 1-3 has two creation stories. The indications I came across were the contradictions between Genesis 1-2 that can be found by simply reading the verses and doing a contrast comparison of order of events and purpose for those events. I have also realized other points that are less significant such as the writing styles and sophistication of the stories. You have asked many times that there must be a reason behind my madness, of this thread, and there is no reason other than to discuss the contradictions of Genesis 1-2. The word "support" in my previous responses was taken out of context by you when you seemed to think that I was claiming that the creation stories can't be "a whole" and contradict each other when that is a not true. The creation stories can be "a whole" and contain contradictory information. So, there is contradictions in Genesis 1-2 and they do not support each other in the sense that they do not congrue that the order of Creation was this way or that way. The order of creation is different in Genesis 1 than in Genesis 2 and as such they do not support each other unless you can accept that the creation stories do not describe creation, literally, the way that it happened. However, since the creation stories do not support each other then it must be plausible that there is actually two creation stories in Genesis 1-3. Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given. Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given. Edited by tthzr3, : change response
Thank you
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Force
Inactive Member
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Re: Straight Reading
bump refer to my last post... Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given. Edited by tthzr3, : change response Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given. Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given.
Thank you
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 233 by purpledawn, posted 12-15-2007 4:22 PM | | purpledawn has not replied |
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Force
Inactive Member
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Re: Validated
purpledawn,
PD writes: Writer's include the information necessary to make their point. Unfortunately we don't truly know the authors' purpose or their audience. We can only guess what an author had in his mind over 2500 years ago.
The reasons are found in the stories, to teach morality and purpose, to those who can't figure it out for them self.
PD writes: I was really trying to get tthzr3 to provide reasoning for his statements. He keeps claiming he has validated, but he hasn't really said anything. The results for both stories in Genesis 1-3 are different, the writing styles are different, the names of the Deities are different, and there are verses that contradict each other. p.s. refer to post 234... Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given. Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given. Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given. Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given. Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given. Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given. Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given.
Thank you
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 236 by purpledawn, posted 12-15-2007 4:58 PM | | purpledawn has not replied |
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Force
Inactive Member
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Re: Gobbldygook - OFF TOPIC
PD,
pd writes: And yet when someone argues that the stories are not both creation of the world stories, you simply told them they had no evidence and referred them back to the OP. You did not respond to their argument with further evidence or reasoned argumentation for your position. The contradictions are there in G1-G2.
PD writes: And still you don't clarify what you mean by support. You really aren't very clear on your position other than read your OP. Did I mention you keep sending people back to the OP? We are discussing the contradictions in G1 and G2 and that is it. NOTE: Your claim that the stories have the same overall outcome is not true. Read last paragraph
PD writes:
Or a creation of the world story and a story of why mankind is the way he is. I will agree that the stories have different meanings but it does not change that there is contradictory information in G1-G2.
PD writes: The other option is that there are two different stories that may or may not have the same purpose. There is two different creation stories that do not have the same purpose, that much is clear, so this is a mute point. In anycase it does not change that there is contradictory information in G1-G2. OFF TOPIC: The bottom line here is that there are stories in G1-G3 that describe God making beings(creation events), that have different purposes, and different overall outcomes because they have different purposes. Thus two different creation stories. However, I will say it again, the point of this thread was to discuss the contradictions in G1-G2 and not my personal conclusion on G1-G3. Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given. Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given.
Thank you
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Force
Inactive Member
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Message 254 of 308 (441130)
12-16-2007 1:42 PM
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OFF TOPIC
Greetings, I have realized that a majority of responders in this thread have discussed the interpretations of G1-G2. The topic of this thread is to discuss the contradictions in G1-G2. If you would like to discuss a specific verse and try to interprete it that is fine but however the interpretation of G1-G3, as an entirety, is off topic. P.S. if I have gone "off topic" it was by accident so I apologize for it. Edited by tthzr3, : No reason given.
Thank you
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