Internet Porn

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I submit that, in general, facials are not performed because they intend to degrade or demean women, but rather that the male actor is shown ejaculating because it is 'proof' that the sexual act has been completed. While there are some female ejaculation erotica out there, one must admit it is much easier to visually depict a man's orgasm than a woman's.

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I've seen a little bit of Japanese porn, and in what I've seen there seems to be much more emphasis upon the woman's pleasure. They feature her sounds and the camera lingers on her face in the throes of passion quite a lot.It seems that, at least what I saw, the big turn on was how turned on the woman was.That kind of scenario is not really that prevalent in mainstream porn over here, am I right?

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This is why men are shown ejaculating as the culmination of the act - not because the act itself existed only to pleasure the man.

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Yeah, right, you just go on believing that. hahaha.

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Schraf, I should feel very sorry for you, just as if I am sure you would feel sorry for me if said all of my experiences with women led me to feel most women were shrewy, shallow, manipulative, vain bitches that had no interest in relationships, other than to feed off of a man's money, fame, or attention.

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I didn't say "all", now did I?You wouldn't be responding to arguments I haven't made again, would you?

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I pity you with the same pity I would have for someone that lived in a racially mixed area where those of the opposite race happened to fit a stereotype (lets say all the black in the neighborhood were thugs), and so came to believe the stereotype was real (all black were criminals).

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I didn't say "all", now did I?You wouldn't be responding to arguments I haven't made again, would you?

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Your views of males are sexist, cheap stereotypes.

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I wasn't talking about all men.You wouldn't be responding to arguments I haven't made again, would you?

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I'm really really sorry if all you and everyone you know have only encountered males who fit that stereotype. You have lost out on the ability to live a better life.

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I never said "only", now did I?You wouldn't be responding to arguments I haven't made again, would you?Let me remind you of what you seem to have forgotten that I wrote: Now, I would definitely be using a sexist stereotype if I were to paint ALL men with the same brush, but I'm not, am I?

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Porn, and strippers and etc etc are for sexual entertainment. Women go to them just the same as men, other than in the exact same percentages.

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There is no reason to degrade this, and use it as evidence they are incapable of appreciating, or do not enjoy appreciating relationships based on other qualities.

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I agree that people may be using strippers, porn, and prostitutes for the basic, simple reason you state; to get turned on.But I doubt very much that all people who use these things are all using these things for only that reason. I do not believe that human motivations are generally that simplistic.

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Going to a restaurant because you love the way a certain chef cooks, or a comedy club because of a comedian's sense of humor, or a lecture for a scientist's thought-provoking ideas, is NO DIFFERENT than going to a strip club because you enjoy a stripper's ability to arouse yoru sexual desire.

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Many people go to a restaurant to enjoy the food, yes, but they might also enjoy showing off to their companions how much they know about wine, or feel important and wealthy when they pick up the check.Sure, someone might like the comedy stylings of a comedian, but they might also be going to that comedy club to feel more a part of the hip, happenin' night scene in their city.They might go to a scientist's lecture to have some thoughts provoked, but they also might be going because this scientist's ideas feeds their political agenda or religious agenda.Just as people might use prostitutes, strippers and porn simply for sexual arousal, they might also be going there because they are angry at their spouse, or their boss just demoted them, or somebody threatened their manhood and they need to feel manly and important again.People are complicated.

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It appears to me that you have sex so tied in to love and relationships, that you no longer see it as a valid part of human nature without them. Again, I am sorry for you. You ARE missing out... at the very least of being able to understand the motives and benign nature of other human beings.

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Actually, I think it is you that can't understand many human motivations. I think you state things too simplistically at times.

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Go to one and I think it will be self-evident.

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I've been to one, and it is not self-evident. I'd like to know what you think men can get at a strip club (other than fake tits, maybe) that they can't get at home.

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Go to one and you can see for yourself how many.

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If I go to one, that will be an example of ONE club.

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So which is it Scraf?(sic) Some men have difficulty with intimacy, or many, many men have difficulty with it? I'll make it easier for you, give us a percentage (your own estimate is fine).

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Many, many men have varrying levels of difficulty with intimacy. (So do many women, but I think, as a group, women are less uncomfortable with emotional closeness)Some men find intimacy extremely difficult and discomforting.

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I submit that some women have difficulty with intimacy and this is a human traight/failing regardless of gender. Do you disagree?

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No. It is a matter of degree.

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What is 'real intimacy?' What is 'real relationship stuff?' You keep referring to this, I'm curious to understand what you mean by this.

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I suppose I am talking about the kind of relationship where one shares their hopes and fears, cares about the happiness of the other, loves and is loved in return, makes a connection at a deep level, not guarded.

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What about the 59% of the US male population over 18 cohabitating with and/or married to women, are they incapable of 'real intimacy' and 'real relationship stuff?'

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Some of them are not, no.Lack of intimacy is one of the biggest complaints women have of their men when in long term relationships. Little personal connection.I think it is slowly changing, but it wasn't that long ago that a married woman got her emotional support from her circle of girlfriends, not from her husband. She just didn't get that from him. A man got his emotional support from his wife, because he didn't have close, intimate relartionships with other men. You just didn't have conversations about your fears with other men; it showed you were weak and was humiliating.That's why men tended to suffer much more emotionally after a wife dies or they got divorced. She had her circle of girlfriends to help her through it in the case of divorce, but the man's only intimate support was his wife.My father had a pretty large group of drinking buddies that he saw every week, but do you think a single one of them came to see him in the hospital when he got his bypass operation?

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I submit that by virtue of cohabitation and/or (semi)permanent commitment, these men are capable of intimacy and 'relationship stuff.'

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I think most men are capable of intimacy, of course.Many men, however, do not develop this capability to their full potential. They often don't have to, or sometimes they want to but don't know how.Also, people vary.My parents have been married for close to fifty years, and I have never remembered a time when they haven't pretty much despised each other. They are bitter, bitter people.

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Do you have a single SHRED of evidence beyond your obviously very personal perspective that this is true?

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Nothing specific, like a source, but this is stuff that I have learned from reading over the years. I can try to look some things up if you like.

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I don't feel boys are less equipped to deal with the emotional aspects of relationship sex.

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It's emotional parts of the relationship outside of sex that I am talking about.Lack of intimacy is one of women's biggest complaints about their husbands.

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It is more a matter of simply not feeling required to do so.

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Yeah. No kidding.

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Sex, being a natural drive, needs to be satisfied one way or another. Why all the unnecessary relationships and emotional baggage to accompany it? Porn is treating sex as any other activity, the way it should be.

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Sex is a natural activity for humans. We must remove the obstacles, the expected ceremony, the false mystique surrounding it.

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I'll bet you wouldn't be saying this if birth control wasn't freely available.Children are the "natural" consequence of all of this free and easy sex you advocate; are you prepared to support all of the offspring produced?

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I never stated that. Those were the words of another poster.

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No, it was my restatement of what you wrote in post #158 of this thread:"As for degrading women through porn it is a subjective thing. There is nothing degrading if the woman likes what is happening."

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Probably there are things a porn actor will do that he/she does not like. So what?

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So, it contradicts what you said, which is that "there is nothing degrading if the woman likes what is happening."You cannot know if the woman likes what is happening to her in the film, so how can you say she doesn't feel degraded but is just acting like she likes it for the money?

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There are probably things you do at work that you don't like. It is a job.

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Right, but this also contradicts your statement.

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There are people whom watch porn that like what the actor does and that's the whole point of making a film.

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But you said that there is nothing degrading about what happens to a woman if she likes it, but since people will do things they don't like for money and act like they like it, you have no way of knowing if she feels degraded or not.

I've never breastfed a child but my sisters have, and they both tell me that their nipples got so chapped from being wet all the time, and that their breasts got so sore from being full of milk that breastfeeding was pretty unpleasant sometimes.Sometimes they felt like cows.

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Of course birth control changes the situation but what of the offspring produced? People whine because there are not enough children being born.

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I don't know where you live, but nobody is complaining about it in the US as far as I can tell.That is beside the point, anyway.Ever since the advent of The Pill and the sexual revolution of the sixties, a whole mythology of it being "natural" for people to have lots and lots of unfettered sex with as many partners as we want was able to propogate itself.It is ironic, because this myth of the "naturalness" of lots of casual sex was only enabled after reliable artificial birth control was introduced.Let me remind you of what you said in a previous message: This is obviously a post-Sexual Revolution mythology that completely disregards it's origin in The Pill.Sex is NOT "just another activity".It can and does produce children which are a huge responsibility.Previous to The Pill and the Sexual Revolution, much of the "obstacles" and "expected ceremony" that revolved around it before then involved making sure that the male didn't bugger off and irresponsibly not provide for the children he made.This message has been edited by schrafinator, 07-04-2004 09:47 PM