Is it Rape or Not

In the "Bible: Word from God or Not" thread Message 1The treatment of virgins in the following passage from Numbers came up This passage was defended as not constituting rape since Deuteronomy 21 details the law in this respect. Not wanting to take the topic off course I thought it best to suggest a new topic.The question is, does this passage describe rape?If this is rape, how does one who believes the Bible is the "Word of God" reconcile this issue? Does the process described in Deuteronomy change this act to something else?Definition of Rape from Answers.com I would guess this would go into "Bible Study" or "Faith and Believe" forum. Edited by iceage, : No reason given.

But all women (and men) are unrighteous! So now what?

Is not Deuteronomy a later book so was this process in effect yet?Actually I don't have time right now to look up the exact verses but in Numbers just a little further down the page there is some explicit text about using these "persons" as a "heave" sacrifice aka burnt offering. But keep in mind these persons were unrighteous.

Oh my! Somehow I doubt "feelings", in the sense you are thinking about, were much of a factor here - certainly not her "feelings". I give you points for your naive optimism. Read a little further down the page and some these "persons" were burnt as an offering. I don't think anybody is disputing this point so the emphasis is really not necessary. However when someone claims these are the thoughts or word of the God you start to get some static.To attribute this to God is blasphemous. It is interesting that chimpanzee groups exhibit similar raiding practices. This text merely sanctifies the act and codifies the rape.

Sigh... please supply us with a definition of rape. No! It said "keep alive for yourselves". The "for yourselves" phase is a small indication that this is not an act of mercy. This is ludicrousCan you speculate why the virgins were only spared? If you answer anything please answer that - this will require some imagination. Edited by iceage, : No reason given.Edited by iceage, : No reason given.

Perhaps subject matter for another thread, only one atrocity at a time.Check up on Numbers 31:28-29 These are supposed commands from God!!! Not historical artifacts.I am comforted that you are trying to distance God from these commands although....

They were giving offerings to the LORD which typically meant offerings that sent sweet smoke to heaven.This is fodder for another topic. I will write one when I get time. Edited by iceage, : No reason given.Edited by iceage, : No reason given.

Are we not talking about your god's Commands here!!! You know "Thus sayeth the Lord" stuff. I am assuming you believe that your god approves of his own commands. Edited by iceage, : No reason given.

Not asking you to read minds, just read the topic post number 1. Edited by iceage, : No reason given.

quote:

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Rape is defined as forcing (another person) to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse. The other person does not consent.

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This is rape regardless if you have some more extreme vision. That fact that it is codified does not alter the fact that it is rape.The literalists have to accept this. It maybe in your view holy rape or god ordained rape, but it is rape. The literalists never stop to think that they may be committing blaspheme.Another argument I keep hearing is “it was the NORM at the time!” Yes, nobody is arguing that. The events describe the workings of the era, which are the beginnings of human society and the beginning of humans attempting to understand the divine. In that sense the writtings are very ordinary. ONe would expect extraordinary from God and not the same rules that govern ChimpanzeesThe literalist, have created a great err in saying; No! This describes god’s commands and god’s ways and god’s dealing with man. Revolting in way.This is just another way literalist belittle God, humanize God and put God in a small box so they can understand God. The literal concept of young earth and six day creation is another.

The problems here is that you believe people are attacking God when one questions if these commands are from God. The real question is that the evidence indicates that these are not Gods thoughts but are merely history of warrior tribe embattled in sectian warfare. You took the hook, line and stinker and now you have to think of God as some gray bearded guy commanding rape. Careful now . “story” indicates fiction. No! they were fully human (ie primate) and acting as such. The humanist in the crowd will get a chuckle from your wording here. One thing we forgot here is that not only is this rape but it is child rape. These virgins were most likely very very young. If the evil doers were really evil than I would guess that the age of a virgin would be very young.So what context do you need to justify child rape?

Please provide your definition of Rape. That should be elucidating.

This is pure delusion. In the passages under consideration the girls had absolutely no option, voice or choice. The girls consent or non-consent was not an issue. Their "will", against or for, had no bearing. By your own definition this was rape.You actually believe that these women "willing" married the men that just killed their parents, siblings, cousins, and everyone they knew?It is poor study of the human mind and heart to think that these girls (being virgins were probably around 12 years of age) would be able to get over such trauma in such a short time period. I know you tried to paint a Norman Rockwell view of marriage in the situation but it is simple preposterous. The girls were scared sh*tless. The majority of these girls were psychological traumatized for the rest of their short life.

Whoa there now.I have read that Man was created in Gods image. The Midianites and all the other "ites" that were commanded for slaughter were also created in Gods image. The way the OT paints the picture you would think these people were made in the devils image. Given any sampling of people you will find good and bad in varying qualities. To label an entire population is evil invalid statistically, unless of course these people really were made in the devils image. As in most all cases of Genocide, the subject people are vilified.Come on can't you see this for what it is - a story of a bronze age people. Nothing out of the ordinary going on here. Sounds horrible to us but quite normal for war time.

Were does it even hint that these girls had an option, choice or voice? If you don't answer anything answer this.What does such language as "keep the virgins for yourself" Or "Divide them up evenly" suggest?You make it sound like they are being given proposals of marriage?How many young girls do you know that could bounce back from such psychological trauma after a few weeks? Adult battle harden men suffer the rest of the lives for a lot less.Faith I am somewhat disturbed by your use the term "cooling off period". This trite phase shows an incredible lack of understanding of the situation and empathy for your fellow human - all in the name of having to believe this stuff is from God? You try to make it sound like they are having "relationship issues".At least the Biblical text calls this a period of grief.