Islam does not hate christianity

Faith writes:

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I will say up front that I don't have the energy to track down the reference...

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Then perhaps it would be a good idea for you to wait until you've mustered that energy before you go spouting off on topics you don't understand and know nothing about.

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Certainly there are peaceable Muslims, many of them, but they are those who do not take their religion as given.

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You mean they are fundamentalists. How are Muslim fundies any different than Christian fundies? Your description easily applies to either group.

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For those who claim all fundamentalisms are the same I would point out that the sad epochs in the history of Christianity are not justified by the Bible...

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Then how do you explain Deuteronomy 13, among other biblical admonitions to kill non-believers?

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Islam spread originally by the sword.

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And that is somehow worse than the genocide ordered by God himself in 1 Samuel 15?

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Faith writes me:

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I've argued this at great length on other forums, but I do not have the references at hand and I have other things to do, and your rudeness doesn't even deserve this reply.

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Yes it does, or else you wouldn't have made this reply. Based on the bullshit you've been posting here it would seem that your "references" are nothing but fundie apologetics.

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The ones who do not take it as given -- or written -- are the moderates.

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Yes, just like Christian moderates.

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Israel was God's instrument to show the world His law and His dealings with humanity.

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Thank you for justifying genocide. Not many fundies have the guts to come right out and say that genocide is justifiable. It's good when one of you slips up and reveals your true colors. Now we know where you're coming from.

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Amalek was an inveterate enemy of God and God's people.

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The children of the Amalekites were killed too, ya know. I guess that's okay though, since you don't have a problem with genocide. But just for the record, those Amalekites, including the suckling babies who God - in his infinite mercy - ordered killed, were the descendants of the Amalekites who had confronted the Israelis. The genocide was ordered some 400 years after the original offense. No way any of the actual perpetrators were still alive, only their descendants several generations later.But then again, since genocide is cool with you I suppose none of this matters.

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Faith prates:

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So many these days are apparently incapable of discriminating between murder and justice on just about every major issue. To call God's justice genocide is a case of this popular moral reversal.

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From The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language: Need I present you with the definition of 'justice' as well: I am perfectly capable of distinguishing murder and genocide from justice. I'm afraid it is you who are confused. God ordered the systematic extermination of an entire race of innocent people, including suckling infants. Therefore God is just as bad as Hitler. No blood-thirsty Christian is ever going to convince me that genocide is ever, under any circumstances whatsoever, justifiable. It is immoral and reprehensible. You are the one who is saying otherwise.

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The moral high ground you think you are standing on is extremely shaky.

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No it's not. My morality is one in which genocide is unacceptable under any circumstances whatsoever. It's what you might call a 'moral absolute'. Ever heard that phrase before? Perhaps not, since you clearly don't understand the concept.

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Exodus 34:6-7 The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear [the guilty]; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth [generation].

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Yes, yes, the same God who orders cold-blooded genocide. The same God who enjoys seeing little suckling babies ruthlessly killed. The same God who punishes the innocent for the sins of the guilty. That would be your God, certainly not mine.

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Faith palters:

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The motive is what makes it either murder or justice. When God does anything it is perfect justice and He explains His reasons for anyone who cares to find out.

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Where can you find a definition of 'genocide' that takes motive into account? You quoted the definition yourself and yet you still don't understand it? "The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political or ethnic group." What part of that definition deals with motive?You are excusing genocide. You keep calling it "justice". Make no mistake, Faith, you are the one who is confused. There can never be any justification for genocide. Never.

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And the execution of the Amalekites was just and fair...

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Why do you keep justifying genocide? God ordered an entire race of people killed: men, women, elderly, handicapped, infant and suckling baby. All of them. An entire race. Check the definition of 'genocide' again because you clearly don't understand it. You keep confusing it with 'justice'.

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My morality is one in which genocide is unacceptable under any circumstances whatsoever. It's what you might call a 'moral absolute'.

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And from whence do you derive the authority to establish such moral absolutes? "YOUR" morality?

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I dunno, I don't much worry about that. All I know is that according to my morality, genocide is wrong. It troubles me to encounter people like you who disagree.

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Typical fundie drivel: "you're wrong. Don't expect me to make an effort to show why you're wrong, just take my word for it, dammit!"

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