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Author
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Topic: 2024 US Presidential Election
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marc9000
Member Posts: 1522 From: Ky U.S. Joined: 12-25-2009 Member Rating: 1.4
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Message 721 of 871 (917071)
03-20-2024 9:13 PM
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Reply to: Message 712 by Percy
03-20-2024 7:45 AM
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Re: bloodbath
Percy writes: And he's calling the January 6th insurrectionists patriots and hostages.
marc9000 writes: That received very little, if any, attention from the news media in what I was referring to.
And yet somehow I learned about it from the news media. "In what I was referring to" were the key words you missed.
marc9000 writes: I don't watch all that much news...
That would explain why so much of what you say bears little resemblance to reality. Watching news should only be a small part of where one gets information about reality! Maybe one's own life experiences with the economy, with taxes, with costs of living, with liberty, with government mandates, with all those same experiences of his family, friends, co-workers, etc could play a part about how one perceives reality.
Trump is telling you how he's going to become a dictator in plain language and you and his followers are eating it up like it's the best thing since toaster waffles and WiFi. This is just unchecked emotion. Straw man building. Politics is full of hot air, and Democrats put fourth their fair share. It's not Constitutional for a U.S. president to declare himself a dictator. That statement by Trump was just a way to show that's he'll hit the ground running the first day, to get started on righting the sinking ship that is the U.S.
Who called invaders of the Capitol currently in prison hostages and patriots? Who said, "I am your retribution"? Who said, "It’s going to be a bloodbath for the country"? Who called his opponents "vermin"? Who said immigrant are "poisoning the blood of our country." Who said he was going to be a dictator on day one?
It should be obvious that this is not a person who should be let anywhere the reins of power of a democracy that would like to remain one. He HAD the reins of power for 4 years, no dictatorship, no bloodbaths, no unconstitutional disasters at all. Someone else has the reins of power currently, and for the last 3 years. Several states have come closer than any time in past U.S. history to having their choice in a presidential primary taken from them. Never in U.S. history has the DOJ been weaponized by one political party against a political opponent. Never an almost completely uncontrolled border. Not good for a democracy that would like to remain one.
Percy writes: He says some migrants aren't even people and that they're poisoning the blood of America.
marc9000 writes: Because there's little doubt that it's the truth.
Whatever remnants of Christian charity and compassion remain within you have been overrun by racism and hatred. It's not Christian charity to promote the destruction of Christian lives in one's own country, by mostly non-Christian invaders. A lot of Christians don't have more tax money to give. Not Christian charity to have compassion for the entire world, and pointing to other Christians and ordering them to pay for free stuff for anyone else in the world who wants it. Christian charity is sacrificing one's OWN resources for the good of another, not favoring the forcing of OTHERS to do the sacrificing.
It's a good question. Most of your post belongs in the "wild speculations" and "made up out of whole cloth" departments Democrats also have a lot of that, from "Trump will be a dictator", to "Climate change will destroy us all unless the government takes more of our freedoms and money, etc.
There are so many commentators out there that you can always find one saying any particular thing you're looking for. What you should be paying attention to is that your candidate for president is still making the kind of violent authoritarian comments that led to January 6th. It's also worth paying attention to comments from your candidate's fixers, about violence. Kieth Olberman's recent hopes for Trump's assassination. Chuck Schumer's threat to Supreme Court justices a while back, Maxine Waters, Rachel Maddow, Joe Scarborough, lots of violent mouths that are infinitely larger than Trump's one mouth.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 712 by Percy, posted 03-20-2024 7:45 AM | | Percy has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 728 by Taq, posted 03-21-2024 11:00 AM | | marc9000 has not replied | | | Message 735 by Percy, posted 03-21-2024 8:47 PM | | marc9000 has replied |
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marc9000
Member Posts: 1522 From: Ky U.S. Joined: 12-25-2009 Member Rating: 1.4
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Re: bloodbath
You really are a racist POS, aren't you. What "blood" is being diluted? What immigrants are ok? Legal ones.
Did my Puerto Rican father dilute "American blood" when he impregnated my WASP mother? Am I some sort of bastard American? Was it OK that at the time of their marriage it was illegal in some states?
How do you feel about my WASP Canadian immigrant grandmother who married my US citizen grandfather in 1934? Did she dilute? See watcha done? You asked me about immigrants without describing to me if they were legal or not! That's what most all of the far left is doing now, it muddies the waters when it comes to describing immigrants, as if there is little difference if they're legal or not. There is a TON of difference! Legal immigrants aren't breaking U.S. laws, they show patience in being allowed into the country, they probably take a genuine interest in U.S. history, and how the U.S. works. They get examined to see if they have that interest. Illegals START OFF by breaking U.S. laws, that tends to classify them as crooks. Once a crook, always a crook is a common sense rule-of-thumb. Maybe illegals aren't necessarily crooks, maybe they're just stupid and illiterate. Another good rule of thumb, once stupid and illiterate, always stupid and illiterate. During his State-of-the-Union rant, Biden called Laken Riley's murderer "illegal". Liberal commentators heads exploded the next day, forcing the spineless Biden to retract the term. Even though the term was 100% accurate. The recent failed border bill included the part where 5000 illegals per day would become legal, furthering their desire to falsely blend legals and illegals together. If your ancestors you described above were legal, you should resent attempts to degrade them by placing them anywhere near the same level as illegals.
What immigrants do you want to send to prisons or execute? Illegal ones.
Should we shoot them when they show up at the border? If we have another terrorist attack similar or worse than 9/11, and they simultaneously pour over the border, that's undoubtedly what will happen. If only Biden would do his job NOW it could lessen that chance.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 713 by Theodoric, posted 03-20-2024 8:40 AM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 723 of 871 (917073)
03-20-2024 10:30 PM
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Reply to: Message 719 by Percy
03-20-2024 8:50 PM
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Re: MORE LIES, D*** LIES, AND STATISITICS (Disraeli, Twain) - Part 2
We have a very similar system here in WI. I know the town clerk. He says things are much easier and more accurate with the tabulator than it ever was with hand counting. This is at a place with about 750 votes cast in a Presidential election.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 719 by Percy, posted 03-20-2024 8:50 PM | | Percy has seen this message but not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 724 of 871 (917074)
03-20-2024 10:36 PM
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Reply to: Message 722 by marc9000
03-20-2024 9:43 PM
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Re: bloodbath
9/11 was by legal immigrants. Are you ignorant, stupid or a liar? All Puerto Ricans are legal. Are you ignorant, stupid or a liar? Asylum seekers are not "illegal". Are you ignorant, stupid or a liar? So are you for executing "illegal" immigrants? There is a reason the term "illegal" is not used, but that would take humanity and caring to understand.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up, why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 722 by marc9000, posted 03-20-2024 9:43 PM | | marc9000 has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 730 by Phat, posted 03-21-2024 3:37 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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xongsmith
Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: 01-01-2009 Member Rating: 7.0
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Message 725 of 871 (917075)
03-21-2024 1:07 AM
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Reply to: Message 722 by marc9000
03-20-2024 9:43 PM
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Re: bloodbath
To marc9000: What a horrible shit you are!!! I don't care what violations i'm committing here - YOU SUCK!
"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside." Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned! Enjoy every sandwich! - xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 722 by marc9000, posted 03-20-2024 9:43 PM | | marc9000 has not replied |
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Tanypteryx
Member Posts: 4451 From: Oregon, USA Joined: 08-27-2006 Member Rating: 5.5
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Message 726 of 871 (917077)
03-21-2024 2:27 AM
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Reply to: Message 723 by Theodoric
03-20-2024 10:30 PM
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Re: MORE LIES, D*** LIES, AND STATISITICS (Disraeli, Twain) - Part 2
Our primary is in May and it's all mail in paper ballots. I will find out what our system is and how it works and also find out if they need any kind of volunteers. I read that election workers are being intimidated in many different states. Our ballots all require signatures and are numbered. Quite a few years ago they caught and prosecuted a person forging the signature of a relative in Oregon. All the evidence shows that the mail voting systems in Oregon and Washington have been secure for decades.
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned! What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq Why should anyone debate someone who doesn't know the subject? -- AZPaul3
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 723 by Theodoric, posted 03-20-2024 10:30 PM | | Theodoric has not replied |
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Percy
Member Posts: 22505 From: New Hampshire Joined: 12-23-2000 Member Rating: 5.4
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Message 727 of 871 (917079)
03-21-2024 7:44 AM
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Reply to: Message 720 by dwise1
03-20-2024 9:13 PM
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Re: MORE LIES, D*** LIES, AND STATISITICS (Disraeli, Twain) - Part 2
I'd say something a little different, that the GOP set up their system to take into account nearly non-existent problems. Introducing unnecessary extra steps and delays of course introduced a concomitant delay in reaching a final tally. It didn't fail - it was just slow. Many in the GOP want to address the imaginary election integrity problem by going to hand counting, which would be even slower and more error prone. It takes days to hand count a lot of votes (three days is a fair number), and just two days ago the Republicans' Election Riddled With Errors After Hand Counting Ballots in a small Texas county. There were 8000 votes cast. Less than an hour after certifying the election results they had to take it back. Said Republican Chairman Bruce Campbell, "It's my mistake for not catching that. I can't believe I did that." But it's not his fault he made a mistake. He's human, as are the people who tallied the ballot counts he certified. Humans make mistakes, especially on repetitive tasks that have to be carried out many, many times. Machines are far better at that kind of thing. --Percy
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 720 by dwise1, posted 03-20-2024 9:13 PM | | dwise1 has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 729 by Taq, posted 03-21-2024 11:24 AM | | Percy has seen this message but not replied |
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Taq
Member Posts: 10085 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 5.6
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Message 728 of 871 (917084)
03-21-2024 11:00 AM
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Reply to: Message 721 by marc9000
03-20-2024 9:13 PM
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Re: bloodbath
marc9000 writes: He HAD the reins of power for 4 years, no dictatorship, no bloodbaths, no unconstitutional disasters at all. Except for that coup attempt. Promoting fake electors and fomenting an insurrection that interrupted the peaceful transfer of powers is an unconstitutional disaster.
Several states have come closer than any time in past U.S. history to having their choice in a presidential primary taken from them. In Colorado, that was Republicans who did that. It was also based on the US Constitution. Remember that insurrection?
Never in U.S. history has the DOJ been weaponized by one political party against a political opponent. Holding someone accountable to the law is not weaponization. If you think Trump can break any law he likes then you support Trump being a dictator.
Never an almost completely uncontrolled border. Not good for a democracy that would like to remain one. The US had an open border until the 1920's. Learn some history.
quote:
While “my grandparents came here legally” is a common refrain among white opponents of immigration reform, it misses the flip side of American history: For most of its history, the United States has had open borders for white people. Many of our forebearers, including my great-grandfather, were undocumented immigrants, no different from Central American migrants today. For the first century of its existence, the United States had completely open borders. Though it is now derided as a far-left fantasy, in the eighteenth and much of the nineteenth century, the idea of someone simply coming into a new country and starting a life there, without any papers whatsoever, was eminently normal.
The New Republic
It's not Christian charity to promote the destruction of Christian lives in one's own country, by mostly non-Christian invaders. It's not Christian to bear false witness.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 721 by marc9000, posted 03-20-2024 9:13 PM | | marc9000 has not replied |
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Taq
Member Posts: 10085 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 5.6
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Message 729 of 871 (917085)
03-21-2024 11:24 AM
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Reply to: Message 727 by Percy
03-21-2024 7:44 AM
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Re: MORE LIES, D*** LIES, AND STATISITICS (Disraeli, Twain) - Part 2
Percy writes: Many in the GOP want to address the imaginary election integrity problem by going to hand counting, which would be even slower and more error prone. It is also worth mentioning that Georgia did a hand recount of ballots TWICE in the last Presidential election, and the numbers were really close to the machine tallies. You have to ask why MAGA cultists were trying to confiscate voting machines in Georgia when the machines gave the same answer as two hand counts. It certainly didn't have anything to do with vote integrity.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 727 by Percy, posted 03-21-2024 7:44 AM | | Percy has seen this message but not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Message 730 of 871 (917102)
03-21-2024 3:37 PM
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Reply to: Message 724 by Theodoric
03-20-2024 10:36 PM
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Re: bloodbath
Is there a limit to the number who can seek Asylum? Should there be?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 724 by Theodoric, posted 03-20-2024 10:36 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Rahvin
Member Posts: 4046 Joined: 07-01-2005 Member Rating: 8.3
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Message 731 of 871 (917104)
03-21-2024 3:51 PM
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Reply to: Message 730 by Phat
03-21-2024 3:37 PM
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Re: bloodbath
Is there a limit to the number who can seek Asylum? Should there be? What limit did Jesus place on how many neighbors we should love as ourselves?
“The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.” - Francis Bacon"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers “A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity.” – Albert Camus "...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995... "Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."
1 Corinthians 15:26King James Version (KJV) Nihil supernum
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 730 by Phat, posted 03-21-2024 3:37 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 732 by Phat, posted 03-21-2024 3:59 PM | | Rahvin has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Message 732 of 871 (917106)
03-21-2024 3:59 PM
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Reply to: Message 731 by Rahvin
03-21-2024 3:51 PM
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Limits?
Logic placed the limit at as many as one could take care of while not sacrificing the needs of their own family.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 731 by Rahvin, posted 03-21-2024 3:51 PM | | Rahvin has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 733 by Rahvin, posted 03-21-2024 4:16 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied | | | Message 734 by Taq, posted 03-21-2024 5:07 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied | | | Message 738 by DrJones*, posted 03-21-2024 11:00 PM | | Phat has not replied |
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Rahvin
Member Posts: 4046 Joined: 07-01-2005 Member Rating: 8.3
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Message 733 of 871 (917107)
03-21-2024 4:16 PM
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Reply to: Message 732 by Phat
03-21-2024 3:59 PM
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Re: Limits?
Logic placed the limit at as many as one could take care of while not sacrificing the needs of their own family. Is that so?
Luke 18 v18-25:
18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. 20Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother. 21 And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up. 22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich. 24 And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! 25 For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
He didn't seem to put a limit on it. And even if there should be a limit by capacity...how would you determine how many we can take care of without sacrificing our own needs? There are many, many rich people in the US. Many to whom the passage above would apply. One could include our own government - we spend enough on the military budget to easily feed every refugee at our borders, and it would only take a fraction of the amount. Any limits suggested by current politicians are not due to ability, they're due to a choice.
“The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.” - Francis Bacon"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers “A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity.” – Albert Camus "...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995... "Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."
1 Corinthians 15:26King James Version (KJV) Nihil supernum
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 732 by Phat, posted 03-21-2024 3:59 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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Taq
Member Posts: 10085 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 5.6
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Message 734 of 871 (917108)
03-21-2024 5:07 PM
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Reply to: Message 732 by Phat
03-21-2024 3:59 PM
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Re: Limits?
Phat writes: Logic placed the limit at as many as one could take care of while not sacrificing the needs of their own family.
If you follow what Jesus taught won't God provide for you and your family?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 732 by Phat, posted 03-21-2024 3:59 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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Percy
Member Posts: 22505 From: New Hampshire Joined: 12-23-2000 Member Rating: 5.4
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Message 735 of 871 (917111)
03-21-2024 8:47 PM
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Reply to: Message 721 by marc9000
03-20-2024 9:13 PM
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Re: bloodbath
marc9000 in Message 721 writes: And yet somehow I learned about it from the news media. "In what I was referring to" were the key words you missed. It is frequently the case that you claim the news media failed to report news we all learned about from the news media.
marc9000 writes: I don't watch all that much news...
That would explain why so much of what you say bears little resemblance to reality. Watching news should only be a small part of where one gets information about reality! I think you should focus on sources that would help you reduce your error rate and fictional content.
Trump is telling you how he's going to become a dictator in plain language and you and his followers are eating it up like it's the best thing since toaster waffles and WiFi. This is just...etc... Trump has been pretty clear about what he wants to do. He's characterizing the country in dystopian terms and himself as a victim as his excuse to dismantle our democratic institutions and put himself above the law.
He HAD the reins of power for 4 years, no dictatorship, no bloodbaths, no unconstitutional disasters at all. January 6th. Electoral college fraud. Charlottesville. Disaster management (e.g., Puerto Rico). Iran's nuclear program. Ukraine blackmail attempt. Covid mismanagement.
Whatever remnants of Christian charity and compassion remain within you have been overrun by racism and hatred. It's not Christian charity to promote the destruction of Christian lives in one's own country, by mostly non-Christian invaders. You're painting threats where none exist and lies where the truth is well known. Most migrants are from Latin American, which is 90% Christian, mostly Roman Catholic. Immigrants contribute to our economy, and a healthy economy makes us all better off.
A lot of Christians don't have more tax money to give. Helping new immigrants get through the settling in period is a wise investment.
Not Christian charity to have compassion for the entire world, and pointing to other Christians and ordering them to pay for free stuff for anyone else in the world who wants it. Christian charity is sacrificing one's OWN resources for the good of another, not favoring the forcing of OTHERS to do the sacrificing. People who would prefer their tax money not be spent on certain programs are not being forced to pay for it. If that were true then practically all taxes are coercive of someone.
Democrats also have a lot of that, from "Trump will be a dictator", to "Climate change will destroy us all unless the government takes more of our freedoms and money, etc. I have no response to this absurdity. I oppose all calls to violence, no matter from who. Schumer's language was highly objectionable because it sounded like a call to violence, and he acknowledged that the very next day: "“I should not have used the words I used yesterday. They did not come out the way I intended to." But there's nothing in Schumer's history to suggest he has any inclination toward violence. Trump, on the other hand... --Percy
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 721 by marc9000, posted 03-20-2024 9:13 PM | | marc9000 has replied |
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