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Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Evolution falsifies God/s? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
faceman Member (Idle past 3415 days) Posts: 149 From: MN, USA Joined: |
Presumably you also believe in a delusional flood and that the world is young. Yes and yes.
You realize that these beliefs are falsifiable yes? No. But go ahead, I have a feeling this this thread is about to take off in all sorts of interesting directions anyways.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
I think I've answered most of your post in my replies to Dr. Adequate, so I'll just quickly repeat it here. Well one of the reasons that I think you don't really understand evolution is your comment
Message 52: ... also declare that thick-boned, scaled theropods eventually morphed into hallow-boned, avian feathered flying things. ... Now I guess you will be happy to learn that evolution does not "declare that thick-boned, scaled theropods eventually morphed into hallow-boned, avian feathered flying things" yes?" You may be less happy to learn that theropods had hollow (as opposed to "blessed") bones and feathers, and that birds and theropods share a common ancestor ... with feathers and hollow "pneumatized" bones. Nor does evolution occur by "morphing" ... So perhaps you need to explain what you think evolution is ... before you go around claiming it doesn't exist.
As it has been shown that evolution happens, and that the theory of evolution is our best explanation for that, is that close enough? Not by a country mile (and they're longer out here - we evolve them that way). Curiously evolution occurs in every generation in every species observed on earth. Denial is not refutation. So far all you have stated is opinion, and opinion has been demonstrated to have no affect on reality. Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
No. But go ahead, I have a feeling this this thread is about to take off in all sorts of interesting directions anyways. Well I would like to keep this thread about your misconceptions regarding evolution. Thus we could take these discussions to:
Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1If Caused By Flood Drainage Why is the Grand Canyon Where It IS? Meanwhile you can provide what you think evolution is. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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faceman Member (Idle past 3415 days) Posts: 149 From: MN, USA Joined: |
I'm very happen to learn all of that.
It doesn't change the fact, however, that natural selection of beneficial genes also includes the vastly greater number of deleterious genes. Mutations are almost always harmful and they are cumulative (i.e. the ratio of bad genes to good genes grows with every generation). Natural selection does not clean that gene mess up.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
It doesn't change the fact, however, that natural selection of beneficial genes also includes the vastly greater number of deleterious genes. Mutations are almost always harmful and they are cumulative (i.e. the ratio of bad genes to good genes grows with every generation). Natural selection does not clean that gene mess up. This thread is about theology, if you want to be wrong about genetics you should start a new thread.
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faceman Member (Idle past 3415 days) Posts: 149 From: MN, USA Joined: |
Fair enough.
As a creationist, I don't dispute "horizontal" evolution, or finches with differing beaks for example. That is not a problem from a Christian perspective, because in the end, those creatures are still finches. However I do not subscribe to "vertical" evolution, which claims that we all have a common ancestor. There would need to be a source for all of that increasing genetic information, but so far your side has not provided it.
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faceman Member (Idle past 3415 days) Posts: 149 From: MN, USA Joined: |
Oh c'mon now... are you guys going to ask me to leave this thread as well? If I start my own thread, will you still tell me what I can and cannot respond with?
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Oh c'mon now... are you guys going to ask me to leave this thread as well? If I start my own thread, will you still tell me what I can and cannot respond with? Well, you know, a thread's a thread. This one's about whether God and evolution are compatible, people aren't meant to turn it into a discussion of "how 'bout them Mets?" or whatever else drifts into their heads. If you really want a discussion of whether genetics works in the way you've made up in your head or in the way directly observed by geneticists, then I really think you should start a thread on that topic.
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faceman Member (Idle past 3415 days) Posts: 149 From: MN, USA Joined: |
So shall it be.
In the meantime, let me restate my position to get us back on track: I maintain that Darwinian evolution (goo-to-zoo-to-you), if found to be true, would decimate the Christian religion. I'm not sure about other religions though, they might be able to make it work.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
I maintain that Darwinian evolution (goo-to-zoo-to-you), if found to be true, would decimate the Christian religion. But it has been found to be true, and Christianity continues to exist even among people who know this.
I'm not sure about other religions though, they might be able to make it work. Well, yes, obviously. Again, this is not a hypothetical question. We are not merely discussing what would happen if that dangerous young radical Darwin ever persuades people to take his ideas seriously. D'y'know, the feller openly says that he hopes the North will win the Civil War? I can't see that happening, not while Robert E. Lee commands the Confederate Army. Anyway, Darwin's radical new notions ever become the cornerstone of biology, some time in the far distant future, like the early 21st century, then it will be the ruination of religion, I tell you. Our moral values will collapse and young ladies will start riding penny-farthing bicycles in the public streets ... ... well, you get my point. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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faceman Member (Idle past 3415 days) Posts: 149 From: MN, USA Joined: |
I'm not sure what the little soliloquy was all about, but re: Darwinian evolution I would have to say that no it has not been proven. If anything, it's been proven to be absolutely impossible (see my off-topic post above re: genetic mutations).
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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I would have to say that no it has not been proven. Yeah, you would have to say that. But there are zillions of people who know otherwise, and continue to believe in God. And after all, how hard is that? People manage to reconcile the existence of God with all the cruelty and suffering in the world, with malaria and the Holocaust and tapeworms and Stalin's purges and leprosy and "Keeping Up With The Kardashians". You look at all that, and you manage to believe that the Universe is under the complete control of an entity who totally loves all humankind. Then someone comes along and suggests that your ancestors were monkeys, and you say, no, that's impossible, God could not let that be. Well, as Jesus put it, who swallows a camel but strains at a gnat?
If anything, it's been proven to be absolutely impossible (see my off-topic post above re: genetic mutations). But you should bear in mind that you're completely wrong.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Do you have a substantive reply to my post?
If so, I'd like to see it. Otherwise, your response is of no value. Try again?Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
This thread is about theology, if you want to be wrong about genetics you should start a new thread. Actually I started this thread to discuss evolution v creationism, leaving theology to the riVeRrat thread. by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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faceman Member (Idle past 3415 days) Posts: 149 From: MN, USA Joined: |
I replied in kind. I viewed your post as an opinion, and since I don't believe in your version of evolution, I replied back with my own opinion. To demand substance, you need to be able to provide it first.
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