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Author Topic:   Socialism in Venezuela has made illiteracy a thing of the past
Francis Marion
Inactive Member


Message 69 of 193 (257892)
11-08-2005 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Silent H
11-08-2005 4:46 AM


Socialism is a very desirable state; however, it has never succeeded because of human nature. In a true socialist system all members must work and live within a single goal. It only takes one member to take more than his share or only one member to do less than his share for the entire system to fail.
In today’s quasi socialistic societies we see many examples of forced socialism for the betterment of the ruling party, aka capitalism, and voluntary or legislated socialism for the betterment of the less fortunate, aka the welfare state.
We can clearly see now that Soviet communism was nothing more than an exoskeleton with a hollow core incapable of maintaining the shell of a world power. What power it did project came from tyranny and fear. A legislative socialism can only survive as long as there is a strong working class which can be bled to support the less fortunate and freeloaders.
The one thing that makes capitalistic societies work and socialist societies fail is the simple phrase, “What’s in it for me?” The human animal is naturally selfish and will endure great effort to survive. When you insure survival many stop taking the effort to provide for them selves. While living in Australia I remember a PM that promised, “By 1990 no child will live in poverty.” He won the election and promptly established their dole system where money and shelter were given out based on how disadvantaged you could prove you were. Consequently, the number of children living in poverty doubled by 1990 and large dole neighborhoods filled up with freeloaders.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Silent H, posted 11-08-2005 4:46 AM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by Chiroptera, posted 11-08-2005 5:09 PM Francis Marion has replied
 Message 170 by Silent H, posted 11-11-2005 6:28 AM Francis Marion has not replied

Francis Marion
Inactive Member


Message 74 of 193 (257915)
11-08-2005 6:02 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Chiroptera
11-08-2005 5:09 PM


We have no disagreement on the definition of true socialism. Where the difference lies is in our understanding of the true base desires of natural human behavior. Yes, humans are social because we learn quickly that it is easier and more pleasant to survive in cooperation with others. This doesn’t change the basic selfish desires we have but in fact supports selfish desires at a more intellectual level.
Our culture is full of examples. We go to work, not because we enjoy what we do but, because we want the personal reward every two weeks. We work harder when the opportunity for recognition or advancement is present. Corporations advertise because they want a larger share of the market. We want, we want, we want. The more we want, the more we are willing to work for it. This is what makes a capitalistic society work.
It is also what makes socialist societies fail. The lists of freeloaders are long in the welfare/dole systems around the world. Many actually consider it their right to receive money from these systems without the responsibility of adding to the system. The shorter list is the one of manipulators who usurp the power within the system for their personal gain. Regardless of the method of abuse, one, but usually both, prevent the establishment of a true socialist society.
It is inarguable that socialism cannot survive the presence of greed/selfishness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Chiroptera, posted 11-08-2005 5:09 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by crashfrog, posted 11-08-2005 6:08 PM Francis Marion has replied
 Message 83 by Chiroptera, posted 11-08-2005 6:22 PM Francis Marion has not replied
 Message 99 by nator, posted 11-08-2005 9:29 PM Francis Marion has not replied

Francis Marion
Inactive Member


Message 79 of 193 (257923)
11-08-2005 6:10 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by mick
11-08-2005 5:58 PM


Re: What about literacy?
Their government said it so it must be true. [/sarcasm]
Let's see a third party evaluation and international comparison of their literacy rate.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by mick, posted 11-08-2005 5:58 PM mick has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by mick, posted 11-08-2005 6:41 PM Francis Marion has not replied

Francis Marion
Inactive Member


Message 81 of 193 (257925)
11-08-2005 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by crashfrog
11-08-2005 6:08 PM


Don't manipulate my words. I said exactly what I intended. I never mentioned hobbies or public service. Do not try to redefine what I said.
Just to humor you, 99% of a society could be unselfish but it only takes one selfish person to ruin it all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by crashfrog, posted 11-08-2005 6:08 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by crashfrog, posted 11-08-2005 6:27 PM Francis Marion has not replied

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