George W. Bush's qualifications to be President

I kind of hear you, the thread is about GWB, here is a link to GWB believing our rights are from God, etc... So a bit back on topic, GWB supports Thomas Jefferson and the founding fathers mentioning our rights are authored by God.http://www.newsmax.com/...es/articles/2002/6/27/144852.shtmlP.S. Can anyone prove that Jefferson did not say our rights were authored by God, or that George Washington didn't not say that Congress would protect the rights of the religion of Jesus Christ, or that George Washington swear to a man, but he swore an oath to God, not to a man, but to God, using the Bible cause of it contained the laws of the higher power, and so that judges never forget that Gods laws are soverign over mans laws, why swear so help me God, if your not swearing to a power greater than the judge, and thus the swearing in of the bible attests that the founding fathers agreed with George, etc...You raise your right hand and swear to tell the truth so help me God, the swearing in on the HOLY BIBLE, etc...George Washington was the first President swearing in, on the Holy Book, George Bush is the last president to date, swearing in so Help me God, he'd be a hypocrite if he didn't believe the oath he sworn, its all evidence of the authorship of rights are in agreement with Gods Holy Book, cause every civil case someone needs to swear to God, to a power higher than man, etc...

whatever,The questions you are being asked do not have to do with whether or not GW believes our rights are from god...You made the claim that TJ said our rights are from god.Please cite evidence for this claim or withdraw it. Failure to follow this simple suggestion will mean suspension.

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AdminAsgara
Queen of the Universe

http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
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AdminAsgara, I said TJ said our rights are authored by God, meaning they were drawn from the Holy Bible, because that all in the natural they had to base the Bill of Rights, on a power higher than theirs, however, I'll try to find the quote where he said this, he also quoted he swore an oath on the altar of God, so Thomas Jefferson was quite religious, but our founding fathers also realized the threat of religion against allowing this freedom therein, so while he supported this freedom, he was also about not allowing one christian denomination from bullying another christian denomination, as is apparent even today, in Ireland between Catholics and Protestants, etc...This site say he declared to all the world, can't find the quote in any library, but still looking, etc...http://www.newsmax.com/commentmax/get.pl?a=2001/7/17/023518Thomas Jefferson declared to all the world:"We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness [the right and control of property]."That is, since God is the author of our Rights, no king or president, no House of Lords or Senate, no House of Commons or House of Representatives, no Supreme Court or unelected bureaucrat can ever abridge those rights.More interesting stuff on Jefferson the Christian, even rejecting evolution, another acknowledgement toward God being the author of his religion, by another reputable link, etc...I'm still looking for more quotes supporting Jefferson said God is the author of our rights, though one has to respect Jefferson who practiced his religion as president, to the protection of our rights to worship without having the problem as is seen in other countries like Ireland, where you have two religions fighting one another, etc...Acts and Facts Magazine | The Institute for Creation ResearchI just can not seem to find the exact document that Jefferson said God is the author of our rights, other than the links supplied, that imply he did indeed say these words, and given how religious Jefferson was, seem quite plausable, etc...So still looking for the document or manuscript that says Jefferson acknowledged the Creator as the author of the Bill of Rights, etc...

Another quote of the need of the people to have a conviction that these freedoms are the gift of God, totally in agreement with our rights being authored by God, meaning the Word of God, from which this freedom were authored should be a conviction in the minds of the people, etc...P.S. He talks of our rights coming from the King of Kings, the Father of us ALL, and our liberties a gift from God. He is quite the Guardian of religious freedoms, and quite interesting how the enemy twisted his words to make it appear he was not a Christian, he clearly felt our rights coming from the KING OF KINGS, as to is the author of nature.Home - Thomas Jefferson - LibGuides at UVa Library"Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath?" --Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Virginia Q.XVIII, 1782. ME 2:227"The God who gave us life gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them." --Thomas Jefferson: Rights of British America, 1774. ME 1:211, Papers 1:135"I sincerely pray that all the members of the human family may, in the time prescribed by the Father of us all, find themselves securely established in the enjoyment of life, liberty, and happiness." --Thomas Jefferson: Reply to Ellicot Thomas, et al., 1807. ME 16:290"The evidence of [the] natural right [of expatriation], like that of our right to life, liberty, the use of our faculties, the pursuit of happiness, is not left to the feeble and sophistical investigations of reason, but is impressed on the sense of every man. We do not claim these under the charters of kings or legislators, but under the King of Kings." --Thomas Jefferson to John Manners, 1817. ME 15:124"Under the law of nature, all men are born free, every one comes into the world with a right to his own person, which includes the liberty of moving and using it at his own will. This is what is called personal liberty, and is given him by the Author of nature, because necessary for his own sustenance." --Thomas Jefferson: Legal Argument, 1770. FE 1:376"I sincerely pray that all the members of the human family may, in the time prescribed by the Father of us all, find themselves securely established in the enjoyment of life, liberty, and happiness." --Thomas Jefferson: Reply to Ellicot Thomas, et al., 1807. ME 16:290WOW!!!!!!! TJ praying to all the members of the human family a blessing, in the time prescribed by the Father of us all, like who was he praying to, but to the King of Kings, etc...He sounds like GWB praying to God, to Bless the USA, etc...Still looking for the particular quote, but you have here a lots of circumstantial evidence, and another quote that tj implyied our rights for freedom were not derived from the charters of man, but because of the King of Kings(Jesus Christ), etc...

Sorry that both the Queen and I are on you at once but you have a long, bad, history of making up things to assert and being unable to support them.This one you will support or formally withdraw.Those are all very interesting quotes but no one, that I've noticed, has suggested that TJ wasn't a deist (at least). Therefore it isn't surprising that there are references to God and such. That does support the idea that he might have made a statment such as you've said. However, it doesn't do more than suggest. Others have shown a number of things that also suggest TJ would say no such thing.You made a very specific statment and you have to support it or withdraw it.As I have time I'm feeling that you could use a little more of this. You will, when asked, support your assertions. I suggest that you figure out what support you have before you make them.The overall theme of you posts are nothing but made up twaddle. You've had plenty of time to glean some idea of how to debate in good faith. Now start doing so.

Ned, I'm pleased you agree that TJ doesn't sound like a Deist, that was what I was trying to get across, because of his saying our liberties are a gift from God, and the charter being not of man, but of the KING OF KINGS, infering its authorship, not of man, but God.P.S. You have the Charter of the United Nations and you have the Charter of the US Government, which TJ gives credit to the KING OF KINGS, etc...In America they are trying to say TJ wasn't a Christian, in government, so to take all references of Christianity out of Government, and its simply not true, cause religion didn't prevent born again christians like TJ from crafting charters based not on mans charter but Gods.This link is not my personal statement but quoting a patriotic link saying that Jefferson announced to the whole world, the authorship of our rights came from God, think I've substantiated this link, that using other quotes TJ believed the charter was of God, our freedoms gifts of God, etc...http://www.dreamwater.com/raferty/pr_rights.htmlJefferson declared to all the world:"We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness [the right and control of property]. "That is, since God is the author of our Rights - no King or President, no House of Lords or Senate, no House of Commons or House of Representative, no Supreme Court or unelected bureaucrat, can ever abridge those rights.Which leads to Jefferson’s next point: "To secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among men." Or in other words, the whole purpose of government, in the first place, its legitimate role, is to secure the rights of man, "anything more or less than this is tyranny."

I didn't say any such thing. I don't care right now.Defend or withdraw your statment. You other choice is a suspension.

I can not find Blackstone's quote elsewhere, supporting Jefferson actually said this exact statement in some quote book, so I'm forced to temporarily withdraw the statement, the link did say they were quoting Blackstone the most quotable lawyer in the early republic, on what he said Thomas Jefferson statement was to the world, so thats about all I can say at the moment in respect to the Blackstone statement, etc... "Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath?" --Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Virginia Q.XVIII, 1782. ME 2:227 "The evidence of [the] natural right [of expatriation], like that of our right to life, liberty, the use of our faculties, the pursuit of happiness, is not left to the feeble and sophistical investigations of reason, but is impressed on the sense of every man. We do not claim these under the charters of kings or legislators, but under the King of Kings." --Thomas Jefferson to John Manners, 1817. ME 15:124http://www.thinkexist.com/English/Author/x/Author_2104_7.htmHow necessary was the care of the Creator in making the moral principle so much a part of our constitution as that no errors reasoning or of speculation might lead us astray from its observance in practice. Thomas JeffersonThis message has been edited by whatever, 08-31-2004 03:15 AM

I find it interesting that you never once addressed my post directly to you, with counter quotes from TJ, not only showing you he was a deist, but that he believed in a strong separation of church and government.I even showed one of his explanations for the extremely neutral language regarding the "creator" in all documents... he was fighting people that wanted more specific language but HE and the Majority recognized that they were even looking to INCLUDE any and all belief systems!You mind dealing with that, oh yeah as well as the others?If you are having a hard time remembering to last page, it was post #116.This message has been edited by holmes, 08-31-2004 05:22 AM

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

unfortunately that probably would negatively influence a lot of people ...Adlai Stevenson was portrayed as "too intellectual" ...(although the idea of being too intelligent for a job eludes me as a negative)

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

I dunno.Americans have a weird relationship with the intellectual community; we respect intelligence and expertise but we love seeing eggheads find out that they're not as smart as they thought they were.Getting the Nobel Prize, though, means you are as smart as you think you are. I've never heard anyone dis a Nobel Prize winner.Like on the West Wing, I'd like to see a President with a Nobel Prize, possibly in Economics, Medicine, or Literature. (Physics might be a reach.)I'd love to see that guy run against Bush - "I have a Nobel Prize in Medicine. How many Nobel Prizes does Bush have? Oh, right. None."Then again I'd imagine a 527 group called "Swift Doctors for Truth" or something would claim to have been in Stockholm around the time the candidate recieved his prize and try to convince people that what he actually got was a fake prize from Kinko's.

Did it strike anyone else how this quote perfectly illustrates Bush's compleatly inarticulate manner of speach?

oh yes, I shudder every time I hear him on the international stage.crash says americans have a respect for proven intelligence, but to me this shows that they prefer very low levels ...... bush has lots of intelligence, all of it low, but lots of it ...

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

Razd, Thats why GWB wants to increase intelligence, that Kerry voted against increasing Intelligence spending, and voted against the presidents bill supporting our troops, and then Kerry attacks GWB and not the Swifties, cause he knows he would lose a debate with the swifties, etc...P.S. I kind of agree that Kerry has a lot of low intelligence too, cause he showed he was capable of holding a c- student in his college days, though either because of lack of effort or intelligence, its a fact he only hold a bachelor of science degree, from Yale. GWB has a masters in buisness, making him more qualified to create jobs, and keep the economy moving forward. The only reason the stock market has not crashed off the high price of crude, and Greenspan raising interest rates, is because the economy is in fact strong, and growing. If you have IRA's, Retirement Mutual funds, this is important, what your suggesting is that Kerry should tax these companies to death to fund his free lunch program, which would be devastating to the Retirement IRA's, those Americans of us that are invested in the Stock market, through all the different retirement plans, etc... The reason the buisnesses left america was not Georges fault, it was the Clinton being led down this slippery slope by the globalists that paved the way, and even now the world trade organization would like to sanction America cause of these foul treaties enacted by Clinton. GWB will stand up to these globalists, what we need is not less republicans but more in the senate. Do yourself a favor and vote for the man standing up for your rights, with more republicans we could address an energy policy, that would only feed the economy that is strong and growing, but agree with you a whole lot of backbone industry has fled our country in the clinton administration, and thus employers left hired the great people from Mexico to work for minimum wages thus Clinton created 3 lower paying positions for every job that was leaving, cause the employers in america realized that Mexican people are great workers, and don't complain about slave labor wages, and this gave the illusion that Clinton created jobs, when all he did was reduce high paying jobs, replacing with more low paying jobs, where now if you want a job, you competing with not just americans but mexican's for a low paying job. It was all a part of the globalists agenda, to achive the UN's objectives to spread jobs fairly to all the peoples of the earth, and to hear what you all are griping about no jobs, is that you got what you asked for, that is if you voted for Clinton, in the previous elections, etc...P.S. You need to remember Kerry voted to raise taxes, though he says he will not, you know this is a lie, based on his voting record, you can say GWB is using dirty politics to bring out this point, but GWB is helping buisness, bound by world trading laws, and in spite of all this the stock market has not crashed, even though the price of crude rose to near 50 dollars a barrel, this supports the economy is quite strong, the days of good paying factories jobs are changing because of free trade they have already been sent packing by the democratic Clinton Administration, and the factory jobs remaining are being filled by Mexicans who have not a problem with working in our factories, and americans having no choice to work ata lower wage in some of the remaining factories, cause they are the only unskilled jobs remaining and if they don't fill it, there are those that will, its all about bringing fairness to all the peoples of the earth, etc...Your beef with jobs being filled by importing people, or with exporting industry is with the democratic party globalist candidates, and the UN Charter, the UN Charter is not for America and ours but for redistributing the the machinery to all the peoples of the earth, Kerry is a globalists, presently not representing his presence in the senate but being a democrat is collecting a salary, breaking federal law, not that he needs the money, cause thats the democrats social belief, to get paid by social programs like unemployment, which is great, but you really have no choice but to accept a job with lower wages, once you unemployment runs out, until one comes available with higher pay, its not GWB's fault, but because of Clintonomics, your chances of getting a job with higher pay will only increase if buisnesses are able to compete on the global market, etc...I liked Pat Buchanan, cause he saw all this coming down the pike, said we should close our borders. If we would of elected him, and done this our industries would still be here, as is Clinton was elected and industries started moving entire factories out of our country, were all sent packing cause of all Clintons lies to the american people that this was a good thing, that its a world market, while Rush Limbaugh and others were screaming about our jobs being blessed by the democrats to leave our country, and to make matters worse sell products once made in america back to America without tarrifs, cause of the free trade agreements, and the penalties of the World Trade Organization to protect these industries from being penalized, etc...P.S. The problem is the democrats aligning with globalists, the solution is to vote the democrats out of office, its quite simple, etc...If Pat Buchanan had a chance to win the election, he'd be the candidate, as is, GWB is the only choice one has, given Kerry not rising up to debate the swifties, etc...http://www.un.org/aboutun/charter/UN Charter goals is to employ international machinery for the promotion of the economic and social advancement of all peoples,Page not found - Plaza | Fretag i StockholmInsourcing, etc...This message has been edited by whatever, 08-31-2004 07:10 PM