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Author Topic:   The Power of the New Intelligent Design...
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 857 of 1197 (907242)
02-21-2023 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 816 by Dredge
02-18-2023 11:00 AM


Re: Typical?
Dredge writes:
You seem to be to be at odds with science itself ... I've been told repeatedly that science doesn't prove anything.
In common parlance, prove means proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and that definitely applies to common ancestry.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 816 by Dredge, posted 02-18-2023 11:00 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 861 by Dredge, posted 02-21-2023 11:09 AM Taq has replied
 Message 872 by Dredge, posted 02-21-2023 12:29 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 858 of 1197 (907243)
02-21-2023 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 817 by sensei
02-18-2023 11:37 AM


Re: Typical?
sensei writes:
It's common today that normal cells produce eggs or sperm that have half of genetics in each cell.
What in the world is a "normal cell"??? Do your stomach cells produce egg and sperm? Do your skin cells produce egg and sperm? Do your muscle cells produce egg and sperm?
When somatic cells, the cells that make up your body, divide they produce new cells with full diploid genomes.
But let me ask you this: do you believe that different species have evolved meiosis seperately?
Given the distribution and uniqueness of meiosis in eukaryotes it tends to point to common ancestry. We can find meiosis and sexual reproduction even in single celled organisms.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 817 by sensei, posted 02-18-2023 11:37 AM sensei has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 859 of 1197 (907244)
02-21-2023 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 828 by Dredge
02-18-2023 7:57 PM


Re: Typical?
Dredge writes:
Most of the organisms that appeared in the Cambrian have no recognisable evolutionary ancestors in the pre-Cambrian.
​
Then show me all of the species that lived in the pre-Cambrian and show us how they can not be ancestors of what is in the Cambrian.
How can all those missing links between pre-Cambrian and Cambrian possibly form a nested hierarchy?
You don't need transitional fossils in order to produce a nested hierarchy. Perhaps you should learn what a nested hierarchy is.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 828 by Dredge, posted 02-18-2023 7:57 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 869 by Dredge, posted 02-21-2023 12:08 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 860 of 1197 (907245)
02-21-2023 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 832 by Dredge
02-19-2023 3:21 AM


Re: Typical?
Dredge writes:
Pray tell, how does "without any evolutionary history" amount to a nested hierarchy?
All living species fit into a nested hierarchy. That is without looking at a single fossil, transitional or otherwise. We don't need a single fossil in order to evidence a nested hierarchy. The fact that you don't understand these basic facts says a lot.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 832 by Dredge, posted 02-19-2023 3:21 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 862 of 1197 (907247)
02-21-2023 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 833 by Dredge
02-19-2023 3:33 AM


Re: Typical?
Dredge writes:
There is a MASSIVE gap between ediacaran and cambrian radiations that evolution can't (sensibly) explain away ... the predicted evolutionary links between ediacaran and cambrian are virtually non-existent ...
Prove to us that they are non-existent. Show us every single fossil that is in the Earth right now.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 833 by Dredge, posted 02-19-2023 3:33 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 888 by Dredge, posted 02-21-2023 1:51 PM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 863 of 1197 (907248)
02-21-2023 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 861 by Dredge
02-21-2023 11:09 AM


Re: Typical?
Dredge writes:
Oh, so you know that human descended from bacteria?
I know that the evidence is consistent with humans and bacteria sharing a common ancestor.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 861 by Dredge, posted 02-21-2023 11:09 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 874 by Dredge, posted 02-21-2023 12:35 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(2)
Message 864 of 1197 (907249)
02-21-2023 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 836 by Dredge
02-19-2023 7:09 AM


Re: Typical?
Dredge writes:
Atheists (and most of the scientific community) attribute magical powers to mindless molecules ... lifeless mud turned in human beings!! Wow!!!
It always fascinates me when theists try to project their own beliefs onto atheists in order to discredit atheists.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 836 by Dredge, posted 02-19-2023 7:09 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 866 of 1197 (907251)
02-21-2023 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 850 by Dredge
02-21-2023 6:40 AM


Dredge writes:
If you know how evolution works, choose one evolutionary transition from the fossil record and describe how it happened.
Sure. Here you go:
By comparing the genomes of chimps and humans we can find the differences between the genomes. As I have demonstrated in this thread, the differences are due to mutations and the commonalities are due to common descent. We can also measure sequence conservation throughout each genome which evidences natural selection.
So the physical differences between humans and chimps is due to evolutionary mechanisms, and we can even see the transitional steps in the fossil record.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 850 by Dredge, posted 02-21-2023 6:40 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1034 by Dredge, posted 03-16-2023 1:34 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 871 of 1197 (907260)
02-21-2023 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 869 by Dredge
02-21-2023 12:08 PM


Re: Typical?
Dredge writes:
I'm claiming that the massive gap in morphology and function between pre-C and C biota is not consistent with the theory of evolution.
​
You haven't demonstrated that this gap is real. Please show us all of the species that lived during that time.
Where is the vast number of transitional fossils that are required to bridge the huge gap?
You claim they don't exist, so prove it.
You need similarities to form a nested hierarchy.
And that's what living species have, similarities.
I can't see how the profound dissimilarities between pre-C biota and C biota can form a nested hierarchy.
​
You are forgetting about the similarities.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 869 by Dredge, posted 02-21-2023 12:08 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1040 by Dredge, posted 03-16-2023 4:09 AM Taq has replied
 Message 1042 by Dredge, posted 03-16-2023 4:36 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 873 of 1197 (907265)
02-21-2023 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 872 by Dredge
02-21-2023 12:29 PM


Re: Typical?
Dredge writes:
By saying "It proves common ancestry and evolution", you've painted yourself into a corner - since science can't prove it, no one can prove it.
Troll gonna troll.
In common parlance, prove means proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Live with it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 872 by Dredge, posted 02-21-2023 12:29 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 877 by Dredge, posted 02-21-2023 12:53 PM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(2)
Message 876 of 1197 (907268)
02-21-2023 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 874 by Dredge
02-21-2023 12:35 PM


Re: Typical?
Dredge writes:
Do you know that humans descended from bacteria or not?
I know that the evidence is consistent with humans and bacteria sharing a common ancestor.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 874 by Dredge, posted 02-21-2023 12:35 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 878 by Dredge, posted 02-21-2023 12:54 PM Taq has replied
 Message 1046 by Dredge, posted 03-16-2023 5:47 AM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 879 of 1197 (907278)
02-21-2023 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 878 by Dredge
02-21-2023 12:54 PM


Re: Typical?
Dredge writes:
Losing hurts, don't it?
Troll gonna troll.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 878 by Dredge, posted 02-21-2023 12:54 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 882 by Dredge, posted 02-21-2023 1:03 PM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 884 of 1197 (907287)
02-21-2023 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 881 by Dredge
02-21-2023 1:01 PM


Re: Typical?
Dredge writes:
Not at all. I accept that nested hierarchies exist within phyla.
So you accept common ancestry of phyla?
What's lacking, viz-a-viz the theory of evolution, are fossil links between the various phyla, which are necessary if one wants to claim that the entire fossil record forms a nested hierarchy.
Apparently you are unaware of the genetic evidence which forms a nested hierarchy between the phyla.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 881 by Dredge, posted 02-21-2023 1:01 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1047 by Dredge, posted 03-16-2023 6:03 AM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 886 of 1197 (907292)
02-21-2023 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 885 by Dredge
02-21-2023 1:16 PM


Re: Typical?
Dredge writes:
This article says you're wrong:
Apparently you don't understand the difference between common usage and technical accuracy. All of the time we hear that someone is proven guilty in a court of law, and yet court decisions are as tentative as scientific conclusions.
When someone says that a theory has been proven true it is in the same sense that someone is proven guilty in a court of law.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 885 by Dredge, posted 02-21-2023 1:16 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1048 by Dredge, posted 03-16-2023 6:06 AM Taq has not replied
 Message 1049 by Dredge, posted 03-16-2023 6:08 AM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(4)
Message 892 of 1197 (907422)
02-23-2023 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 890 by sensei
02-23-2023 2:02 PM


Re: Typical?
sensei writes:
Massive gaps does indicate that there is ample reason to doubt the theory.
The only reason why there would be gaps in an incomplete fossil record is if common ancestry is true. If species groups were separately created then there wouldn't be gaps because there would be no reason to expect something transitional between any two groups. Because life has evolved from a common ancestor we do have a nested hierarchy, and that nested hierarchy tells us where the gaps are.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 890 by sensei, posted 02-23-2023 2:02 PM sensei has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 893 by sensei, posted 02-24-2023 4:11 AM Taq has replied
 Message 1057 by Dredge, posted 03-16-2023 6:59 AM Taq has not replied
 Message 1058 by Dredge, posted 03-16-2023 7:14 AM Taq has not replied

  
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