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Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Religion or Science - How do they compare? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Phat writes: Once people begin to face the pains of the future and see the reality of China crushing the US role as global superpower, I predict that at least in the US, Christianity will see a huge upsurge, and the public will again turn to the church to help them get what government will no longer be able to provide. But what does the evidence show? England lost it's Empire and world dominating Navy and faced debt far greater as a percentage of production than the US debt. Did the people turn to the church to get what government no longer provided and did the church meet those needs? France and Germany and Belgium and Italy and Spain and Poland and Greece and Russia and ... lost everything, homes, factories, generations, governments. Did the people turn to the church to get what government no longer provided and did the church meet those needs?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined:
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GDR says public stonings are evil, therefore God did not advocate them.*
GDR complains that the death penalty is executed out of public sight. I suggested that perhaps we should bring back public stonings. *I rewrote this because I'd first said GDR said God is evil for advocating public stonings, but he didn't, he simply said the Bible writers were lying because God wouldn't do that. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I thought that your comment was deadpan humor (or an attempt at such). I didnt think you were serious.
What right do humans have to enact Gods laws anyway?(assuming they actually were Gods laws) Not sure if this is the right topic to discuss this....unless we are studying rational thinking in both a religious context(Bible says it so it must be true) vs a scientific context (what moral justification is there for a given action).Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
GDR writes: When the Biblical writers use the term "Word of God" it is not referring to the Scriptures. It is referring to the Logos and can be also translated as the "wisdom" of God. In Genesis it metaphorically talks about God speaking the world into existence, (such as in God said let there be light etc. ) and so it is in reference to that. The "Word of God" put another way is the essence, the wisdom and the power of God when used in the Bible.PaulK writes:
The claim that God spoke to them, is not the same thing as when the term "Word of God" is used as a noun. Or it might refer to the words attributed to God in the Bible. While the Bible never claims divine authorship it does have sections that are claim to be God’s words, as set down by the human writers.He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
Faith writes: Traditional Bible theologians say you're wrong. They agree with that quote I gave that "All scripture is God-breathed." I think I'll go with them. That statement is wrong on all levels. Firstl your idea of traditional Bible theologians would be those that support your understanding of how the Scriptures should be understood. We can go all the way back to traditional Bible theologians such as Augustine who would disagree with you. Also "God breathed" is not the same thing as God dictated. I agree that God breathes life into the Scriptures and that God reaches out to us through the Scriptures, but when you read it with your understanding you wind up with a perverted view of the nature of God as well as of His desire of how we should live our lives.He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Augusting said something for everybody. Luther got a lot out of Augustine.
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
GDR writes: Which brings us to the debate on how God communicates with humanity, (if in fact He does). "God breathed" is not the same thing as God dictated. I agree that God breathes life into the Scriptures and that God reaches out to us through the Scriptures, but when you read it with your understanding you wind up with a perverted view of the nature of God as well as of His desire of how we should live our lives. My belief is that Jesus is alive...in the sense that the Creator of all seen and unseen embodied a human character that has never stayed dead. Consequently, we too are capable of actions warranting eternal life if we follow this embodied Spirit (character) rather than our own carnal imaginations. This gets to the heart of the issue between religion and science on one level. Science has evidence for a brain, a body, and learned behavior. Religion believes in an eternal Spirit that embodies us through choice and decision. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18350 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Faith writes: Lets take a group of people who believe that the Bible is one of Gods ways to speak to us.
GDR complains that the death penalty is executed out of public sight. I suggested that perhaps we should bring back public stonings. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
Faith writes:
My point is that God as we see His Word, wisdom and nature embodied in Jesus would never have commanded public stonings. It is you that claims that God actually did command public stonings for minor transgressions along with having Him command genocide. GDR says God is evil for prescribing public stoningsGDR complains that the death penalty is executed out of public sight. I suggested that perhaps we should bring back public stonings. It is the people that commanded public stoning in the name of God that are evil. It is you that says that God commanded public stonings thus declaring Him evil. My complaint against the death penalty is that it requires that some individual kill another human being when there is an alternative available, and how that will harden the heart of the executioner. I don't think it should be done at all but I also don't believe that we remain relatively untouched by the horror of an execution as we sit in our comfortable pews seeing justice as having been served, which is not saying that the executions should be done publicly. Also, public stoning was not just having the public witness the execution, but it involved the whole community going out and throwing rocks at some individual, (for things like picking up firewood on the sabbath), until they have painfully breathed their last. You believe that God commanded that to happen and yet you have the audacity to say that it is me who calls God evil.He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Lets take a group of people who believe that the Bible is one of Gods ways to speak to us. Do they follow their conscience when it disagrees with the strict literal interpretation of the Bible or do they go with the literal interpretation? When you pray for wisdom or inspiration, do you ask for this wisdom to build on what the Bible says or do you ask for an overall understanding of what the book (or God Himself) says to us now...today...in the current context? The Bible is our final authority. Without that we are subject to all kinds of errors and deceptions through our own feelings and judgments or even through demonic influence. Whenever a person "gets a message from God" we know it's not from God if it contradicts scripture. Those who pick and choose from the Bible to decide for themselves what is true in it and what false, are seriously self-deceived.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Picking up firewood on the Sabbath was a horrifically serious sin against God and against the Jewish community and against the promise of the Messiah. Doing any kind of work on the Sabbath, or doing anything like collecting firewood which was necessary for the work of cooking, was a slap in the face of God. The sanctity of the Sabbath as a day of Rest foreshadows the ultimate Rest in Christ promised from Eden. That Rest speaks of total and complete dependence on God rather than ourselves. To call it a minor crime is to misunderstand the most central objective of God's revelation to us.
Yes of course I understood your culturebound and prissily self-righteous denunciation of public stoning as punishment of lawbreakers as well as your fatuously self-deceived idea of who Jesus Christ is. That only makes my joke more of a joke. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
quote: If God spoke to them, then what he said would be the word of God. And surely the phrase every word of God fits better with that than with the idea of the Logos (itself an idea that postdates the books of the Tanakh)
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: The Bible is our final authority. then why do you constantly deny what the Bible actually says and substitute the dogma of your Cult for what is actually written?
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.2
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Faith writes: Picking up firewood on the Sabbath was a horrifically serious sin against God and against the Jewish community and against the promise of the Messiah. Doing any kind of work on the Sabbath, or doing anything like collecting firewood which was necessary for the work of cooking, was a slap in the face of God. The sanctity of the Sabbath as a day of Rest foreshadows the ultimate Rest in Christ promised from Eden. That Rest speaks of total and complete dependence on God rather than ourselves. To call it a minor crime is to misunderstand the most central objective of God's revelation to us.Yes of course I understood your culturebound and prissily self-righteous denunciation of public stoning as punishment of lawbreakers as well as your fatuously self-deceived idea of who Jesus Christ is. That only makes my joke more of a joke Actually the Bible has a warning for those who claimed that God had told them to commit genocide and public stonings, as well as for people who understand the Bible as you do. This is from Isaiah 5:20.
quote: He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5
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If the Bible is your final authority, why do you quote men who misrepresent it ?
Message 146 I note that you haven’t answered this point.
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