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Author Topic:   Evolution falsifies God/s?
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 48 of 253 (726491)
05-09-2014 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by faceman
05-09-2014 3:46 AM


The Value of God
faceman writes:
But I can account for that thinking because I believe that our value comes from God, an atheist believes we are essentially stardust - and there's no basis for any real intrinsic value there.
Your idea that value comes from God leads to only 3 options:
  1. You blindly, unthinkingly accept that God's Image is valuable.
    -Here, you take God's word as greater than your own thoughts, but you're a blind, unthinking robot.
  2. You consciously weight the value of God's Image and agree with God that it is valuable.
    -Here, you use the greatest gift God gave to humans in order to differentiate themselves from the animals, your brain, but you raise your own conscious thoughts above those of God's in order to judge His Image as valuable.
  3. Your idea is wrong and value does not come from God.
We can understand that you accept God's Image as having value.
So... which is it? Are you a robot that discards God's greatest gift? Or are your thoughts greater than God's?
Which do you think God would prefer?
Of course, there's always option #3... that your idea is wrong.
Maybe God gave us brains so that we could create our own value, and He just wants us to choose Him of our own conscious will, not as robots.
-this requires that value does not come from God, but humans have the ability to create value on their own.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by faceman, posted 05-09-2014 3:46 AM faceman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by faceman, posted 05-09-2014 11:16 PM Stile has replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 81 of 253 (726777)
05-12-2014 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by faceman
05-09-2014 11:16 PM


Re: The Value of God
faceman writes:
4. Atheism cannot be true, therefore the opposite must be - thus God exists. If God exists, then He must be perfect which means He has value. We are made in His image (even you), thus we have value which comes from God.
For this question it doesn't matter if atheism is valid or not. So I will agree with you -> absolutely, atheism cannot be true in any form!
Following the rest of your idea, you still fall into either point 1 or 2. Here they are again:
quote:
  1. You blindly, unthinkingly accept that God's Image is valuable.
    -Here, you take God's word as greater than your own thoughts, but you're a blind, unthinking robot.
  2. You consciously weight the value of God's Image and agree with God that it is valuable.
    -Here, you use the greatest gift God gave to humans in order to differentiate themselves from the animals, your brain, but you raise your own conscious thoughts above those of God's in order to judge His Image as valuable.

So, again, now that atheism cannot be true, which is it? Are you a robot that discards God's greatest gift? Or are your thoughts greater than God's?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by faceman, posted 05-09-2014 11:16 PM faceman has not replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(1)
Message 218 of 253 (728362)
05-27-2014 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 191 by faceman
05-27-2014 12:20 AM


Foundational Confusion
faceman writes:
ringo writes:
How is different information not "new" information?
But is it beneficial? Can it ultimately turn a fish into us?
I'm guessing here, but your response to ringo seems to imply a deep misunderstanding of the word "beneficial."
In biology, when discussing mutations, "beneficial" does not mean "more like humans."
Beneficial does not even necessarily mean:
-more intelligent
-more dexterity
-stronger
-camouflaged
-bigger
-better eye-sight
-new senses
None of these are what "beneficial" means.
They can be beneficial.
And they can also not be beneficial.
When discussing mutations in biology, "beneficial" only has one meaning: helps the organism survive to the point of reproducing.
That's it.
Sometimes that means getting stronger or bigger or more intelligent.
Sometimes that means getting weaker or smaller or dumber.
It can sometimes be extremely counter-intuitive (like getting dumber being beneficial).
Intelligence can sometimes lead to taking time to make decisions. If you take too much time, and get eaten... the intelligence is not beneficial. In such a circumstance, getting dumber is beneficial.
If you're going to attempt discussions about biological mutations, it's best to understand what the terms actually mean in biology and not what they can mean when talking to your friends about your day.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by faceman, posted 05-27-2014 12:20 AM faceman has not replied

  
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