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Author | Topic: Atheism is a belief (Why Atheists don't believe part 2) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
It is at most an instruction, not a tenet of belief and even if it were simply being said by a professor of something wouldn't make it dogma.o Have you been reading this thread, and the one that started this one?There are clearly terms and sayings like "pink unicorn", and "santa", which I consider dogma of an atheist.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Can you show me physical evidence that this holy spirit exists, and you have received it? If not, then your experiance is entirely subjective. Yes. The function of the Holy Spirit is associated with 9 gifts.The fruit of the spirit is love. If you knew me before, and knew me now, you could easily objectively measure those changes. I also look ten years younger
Can you show physical proof that 'God' actually exists except from outside your feelings, and the circular arguement of 'god created everything, something exists, therefore god'? reasoning? I believe I can. The problem is you won't subject yourself to the test with 100% heart.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Yes, I think everything is eternal.
But it's just a speculation.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
You'll have to provide some context and an explanation of how "prove God exists" leads to the conclusion of dogma. Isn't it plainly clear that in a secular college you will learn about all the reasons why God doesn't exist, and in a Christian one, you will learn the opposite? Why is the Christian one dogma?
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
You said 'heard the word' plus 'inner feeling', and then you enfored that the thought had never crossed my mind Sure...your a poster atheist.
Come now young man my wife is a diest my dad is an elder at his church my two daughters go to church;who in your mind programmed me. You learned from your wife, and your dad, and your 2 daughters in college?
1) We do exist so it is not slim to none! Careful there, your stealing my lines.I hate odds. I hate surveys. If the odds of winning the lotto are 1,000,000 to 1, and you wiin on your first try, then that wasn;t the odds for you then, was it? The odds that we shouldn't exist are made up by people like Carl Sagan, and the like, not me. When scientist make claims like that, yet we are here, it makes me wonder.
3) How was colledge I never went. Seems that way. It's not a lock that you would come up with tewrms like that in college. Either way, you are new here, and semantics are not welcome, at l;east not with me. Your best bet at an intelligent conversation with me will be honesty, other wise it will cease, I don't have time for it. If you are interested in getting real, then I will too.
No. My life,and all my actions I am accountable for. To hope for absolution, for wrongs you have done, from any deity, is immature. Take care of now now.Also when you do something you regret later in life, be an adult and accept the responsibilities of your actions! Your giving yourself away.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
No, that isn't plainly clear at all. I cannot think of any class that would teach that God does not exist. I think you are making this up. right, I never went to school. It is that way in NYC. They leave you with no choice but not to believe, or at least question it.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
I'm an athiest because ther is no god. Prove it.
And you don't want to accept the truth of my being! Says who?I not only accept your decsion about it, but embrace it. The question was is that what you were taught to follow. Turn the other cheek, love thy neighbor. Not 'I can hate I'm human'. There seems to be some kind of mistake in thinking that I am Jesus or something. I have every right to hate, it's my nature to hate things.I can even be righteous in hating certain things. I am a sinner like the rest of us.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
We are going back over 20 years now, but it was mostly science classes, and most likely not all. But it was the general attitude of most, and left me to figure it out about God.
Couple that with the joke that is religion sometimes, and I had to return to my "default postion" (j/k) of being agnostic.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Do you need remidal english. You implied I was
BTW, you spelled remedial, atheistic, and surrounded wrong. preprogrammed(brainwashed) into an athiestic belief. I showed you I . am surronded by loving caring christians unlike you. Well way back in Message 191 I made the assertion "Another pre-programmed response that they must teach in college these days." I did not mention your family, you did. You have no clue if I am a loving caring Christian, you don't know me from a hole in the wall.
No god in that statement but continue No wonder you haven't found God.
Tell me, first you imply I went to college and was programmed You seem to be confused.
So did you enjoy your post. Around here we do not attack the person (which you seem to be doing a lot of) we attack the subject, it's part of the forum rules. It would serve us all a little better if you would keep your emotions out of it. Now all this has been entertaining for sure, but you'll have to prove there is no God, or prove that you have never heard about, or felt there was a God, in order for atheism not to be a belief. Let's stay on topic here. I'll ask you another question, what is beyond our known universe? Edited by riVeRraT, : typing error
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Now can you explain why inventing a fiction which doesn't even feature an atheist dogma supports the view that there are atheist dogmas ? Let's put it this way."If God exists" then every one of these silly little comments about God not existing could be considered dogma. I am not making an assertion that every atheist uses it. Does dogma have to be a written rule?
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
What I meant was that when you are a wee child you do not have any codified beliefs at all. At what age are we talking about, because as a child I was afraid of many things that just diod not exist.
You will of course wonder about where you came from an why you are alive at all and how big is the universe but the concept of a god does not spring magically into mind. It sprang into someones mind, but I agree, not everyones mind, is a possibility, hence the default position of atheism or "true atheist".
It took thousands of years of civilization to move from a pantheon to a single god. There is no set belief format pre installed in our heads. It's difficult to say exactly what happened throughout the history of man, and why all those other gods existed. Sure there is lot's of evidence, but there is much missing also. I cannot say with any authority, other than what the bible says that originally we knew where we came from. But my "belief" is not based on that. It's one of those things I am dying to ask God.
It is not untill about 3 or 4 years (sometimes never) old that we can even entertain the notion that there may be a consiousness that is not our own. I do not agree with that. I have memories from when I was 1.5 years old. But the bible explains that we are to be born again. It explains that we are first born of the flesh, then born of the spirit. Which kind of goes along with what your saying. Probably the reason why children automatically go to heaven. So I agree with what your saying, and I find truth in it. I think it matches what Jesus taught us, which I also find truth in. But I also think that we were created to worship God. This is a default position that comes to be realized when we reach our state of consiousness. Atheist look for this, and what they see is not convincing enough to believe in it, so they believe there is no God.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Guess I can see why not believing in the xian god seems strange if you accept the bible as fact. If I believed it was fact I too would believe in the xian god. Let me clarify. The bible exist, that is fact. I did not believe in it first, I just read it.After I had my experience with the Holy Spirit, I can believe in it. In an instant it became very clear to me. As it stands when I was exposed to the bible as a wee child and youg adult, it just did not add up. Well me either. Especially when I compared what I read with the behavior of those who claim to be followers. I blamed religion for years. Now I realize that religion has nothing to do with God, it's made by, and run by man. I think focusing just on what Jesus taught is the best start.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
and the fact that the truth of a beleif has nothing to do with whether it is dogma or not. Well this is one definition of dogma: An authoritative principle, belief, or statement of ideas or opinion, especially one considered to be absolutely true. This doesn't describe atheism at all?
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
I Freely admit that my belief in the non-existence of the God/s could be wrong. As I can’t prove 100% their lack of existence it would be dishonest of me to say other wise. Though I firmly and resolutely BELIVE that the God/s do NOT exist, IF I was to come across some evidence that was UNDENIABLE, that proved the existence of the God/s then I would have to re-adjust my world view accordingly. This is not dogma?
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 446 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
You will note that it doesn't say anything about the truth of the dogma. truth of the dogma?What the fuck does that mean? I think it says exactly what it says.
Also I asked you to answer my question without non-sequiturs and you have not done so. I answered your question the best I could, maybe your not asking right?
Now as to whether your question as to whether the definition fits atheism or not, firstly I will point out that this discussion is using a wide definition of atheism which includes simply not taking a stance on whether a God exists or not. This clearly does not fit. Even if we take a narrower definition which requires taking the idea that God does not exist I would have to question whether it would fit - where is the "authority" that makes it "authoritative". I have no idea what this means, does anyone else?
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